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PostPosted: January 2nd, 2008, 10:24 pm 
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... Perhaps the subject description was a bit too vague to give you an idea of what this topic is about, but frankly, I think it describes that emo loser Cloud's predicament in the first half of Final Fantasy VII quite well, ... because the more I think about it, the less I think that it seems to be anything of a predicament at all.


Not that I am even playing through FF7 right now, but for some reason there has been a nagging thought in my mind as of late that is beginning to keep me up at night, ... and that is the fact that, in spite of her inmodest state of dress and possessing breasts that should never in real life be found on a girl who is but just a few years past adolescence, Tifa is really nothing beyond your average sweet and pretty girl from next door. While on the other hand, in spite of all of her seemingly spiritual serenity and the image of innocence conveyed through the whole "flower girl" routine, Aeris is actually, almost glaringly, (and forgive my language, please, Mag ladies) kind of, well, ... a floozy.


Now, I assume that most will disagree with me on this one, as over the years it has appeared to me that there are quite a bit more Aeris fanboys than Tifa followers out there on the lot, or that most seem to think Aeris is a lot cooler than Tifa, anyway, but still, a man's got to say what's on his mind, no? (If something like this particular topic belongs in the "opinion" rather than the "video game" section, then forgive my lack of discretion, as it just seemed more appropriate to me to place this topic here, since I cannot automatically assume that my opinion will promote a lot of debate over this.)


Basically, my reasoning is this ->

Aeris may dress more conservatively than Tifa does, but in the end it's the actions of a person rather than physical appearance that better shows what their true nature is like. Almost from the very beginning of the journey beyond Midgar it was quite obvious to me that Tifa had genuinely possessed feelings for the main character for many years, perhaps even as far back as the time Cloud had made this promise about coming to her rescue and all whenever she needed when they were smaller, as shown in that short flashback that occurs right before Cloud and the Avalanche crew head out to sector five to destroy its reactor. In all of the years that had passed since Cloud had left for Midgar to join SOLDIER, it was never evidenced that Tifa was a very flirtatious hostess as she had been running that bar ("Seventh Heaven", it was called?), and she probably never even had consented to dating anyone at all, either. .... Not very relevant, of course, but I think these two theories of mine are decent indicators that Tifa is the sort of person who is quite faithful in her love to just one person. Now, don't get me wrong, Lord knows why she has such awful taste in guys, but that's another story (and besides, just think of it this way: Tifa isn't Dagger or Yuna; it's as though between FFVII and FFX the main characters just became more and more retarded ....)



And then there is Aeris, you see. From the very beginning she has shamelessly flirted with Cloud, a long and sordid series of come-ons that show a severe lack of modesty in her and began just moments after Cloud woke up in the church from his fall. She automatically asserted herself before even really knowing what kind of person Cloud was, by suggesting she pay him back for guarding her on the way home by going out with him. ... Something tells me that if Final Fantasy VII had ended up being given an ESRB rating of "mature", rather than "teen", Aeris would have just bypassed the courtship phase altogether and gone straight for the throat by offering her body instead, to put it delicately. It's as though Aeris must think she is really someone that eeeeevery guy wants. Ugh .... Now, there's certainly nothing wrong with a girl asking someone to look out for her if she is in genuine danger, but Aeris did not have to go to that extreme with someone she had only just met, and, if you opt for her to fight the oncoming soldiers in the back of the church rather than have Cloud watch her back, it is obvious that even a harmless-looking flower girl did not need much protecting, anyway (worthless, sissified Shin-Ra grunts ....).

And all throughout the rest of the game, from that fight in the church onward to her unfortunate death, Aeris has been way too assertive, even as she seemed to clearly recognize that Tifa had been at Cloud's side for so long and cared about him in a way that it would take a very long time for Aeris herself to be able to (and let me tell you something, it probably takes a lot of heart to be able to care so genuinely for such a whiny and apathetic punk who carries the most ridiculous-looking sword in RPG's - save for Squall's gunblade - like Cloud). There are several examples, really, just one of them being the fact that Aeris dared to listen in on a conversation between Tifa and Cloud in the mansion of our favorite lecherous comic relief villain of FFVII, Don Corneo, when beforehand she had pretended that it would probably be something very personal just between the two of them and she should “shut her earsâ€

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Last edited by SarahsKnight on January 13th, 2008, 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: January 2nd, 2008, 10:46 pm 
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I guess I do agree with you on the fact that Aeris was all over cloud from the start even though she knew Cloud and Tifa's past. I'd say you actually have some decent points. I always favored Tifa over Aeris.

the only thing I don't agree with is what you said about Cloud, but that wasn't what this rant was about. But seriously Cloud is a pimp


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PostPosted: January 2nd, 2008, 11:21 pm 
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Dude, you get a karma for actually reflecting about things and not just accepting them.

I never even reached the point where Aeris dies in the game, but I always liked Tifa more (what can I say, I just love her brrreeaaacelets). There's a difference between the two characters – Aeris is 'pink' and Tifa is 'punk'... and you know how many guys love an innocent-looking girl.

Anyway, I agree with most of what you said, except for that Tifa's one love thing. No existing female on Earth (or Midgar, or Terra, or whatever it's called in the game) can spend the better part of her teenagehood loyal to a boy she hasn't seen for years.
Especially in a big city. Especially a good-looking girl.
So, uhm, that's what I think. No way Tifa is innocent. But no way Aeris is innocent, either.

Hck, not even Rikku is innocent!
Speaking of which, I just played through the whole of FFX the other day and was thinking about making a rant about Yuna myself... hmmm...


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PostPosted: January 2nd, 2008, 11:43 pm 
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Dude, you get a karma for actually reflecting about things and not just accepting them.


.... Yayyyyy, good/holy/Light/opposite-of-Evil karma for the protector of angels. :angel



Still, while what you said makes sense, Gnasher, I must stick to my own theory about Tifa's absolute faithfulness. Not that you were arguing otherwise on what I am about to say, but I also wish to add that, just because she may have the look of being flighty doesn't that mean she is, after all. I just assumed that her rather skimpy regalia is simply to allow for more agility, or ease of movement, and you probably need to be strong in that department if you use a fighting style like Tifa's, nei?

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PostPosted: January 3rd, 2008, 12:08 am 
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Terribly sorry to ask this, but I'm far more of a straightforward guy....What are you trying to say, SK?

That Aeris is a slut and Tifa isn't?

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PostPosted: January 3rd, 2008, 10:20 am 
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Well, Zack has some resemblance to Cloud... that may have something to do with Aeris behavior? Not like I want to defend her. But I do find unfair the reputation some fans has given Tifa, for the reasons you have already stated.

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PostPosted: January 3rd, 2008, 6:33 pm 
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That Aeris is a slut and Tifa isn't?


... Basically, well, yes. Or, rather, Tifa has shown a lot more innocence than Aeris has, for all of her appearance and rep as "the flower girl".
I just didn't want to use such a word straight out. *glances uncomfortably sideways*



Thanks, Guar. That's also what I was trying to scream about in this topic. ^_^

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PostPosted: January 3rd, 2008, 9:26 pm 
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I read most of your post, but I do already know my feelings on the matter.

No matter what anyone says, Tifa is by far the strongest character in FFVII. She's struggled through Nibelheim to start with, had a pretty crappy father, and got involved with Sephiroth just as much as Cloud did. To top it off, she joined Avalanche to help Barrett like a true dude.

Cloud, meanwhile, was wanking because he didn't really make SOLDIER, and emulating his best buddies forever Zack, who was the real badass.

Tifa, for God knows why, loves Cloud- but she does so unconditionally, and she has known him for a longer time. She earnestly cares about how he feels about things. She isn't flirty.

Aeris, on the other hand, meets Cloud, and is flirting with him five minutes later. She constantly must have thought of Zack however, and the comparison may have made her act like that. Either way, I think if she really loved Zack... it should have been too soon for her to get involved with Cloud like that.

Then again, if Advent Children showed anything, Zack laid hands on his woman again, while Tifa remains with Cloud(though she deserves better than a man who can only lament over flower whore), and I think it's better that way.

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PostPosted: January 3rd, 2008, 10:19 pm 
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Two different approaches to the dating life. The method of which Aeris used doesn't make her a whore. People can be instantly attracted to someone else, even to the point of flirting. I've done it. Does it make me a man whore? No, not at all. There was a resemblance between Cloud and Zack. mainly because of the both (I know they both weren't) were in SOLDIER and were infused with Mako. In the end, the two seemed similar, though Zack didn't seem to have as much baggage as Cloud.

Really, I don't see the argument. They are two different girls, which both have different ways of showing feeling or interest. And remember, just because a girl has sex with one or two people, doesn't mean she's a whore or a slut.

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PostPosted: January 3rd, 2008, 11:32 pm 
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ShadowFox1001 wrote:
Two different approaches to the dating life. The method of which Aeris used doesn't make her a whore. People can be instantly attracted to someone else, even to the point of flirting. I've done it. Does it make me a man whore? No, not at all. There was a resemblance between Cloud and Zack. mainly because of the both (I know they both weren't) were in SOLDIER and were infused with Mako. In the end, the two seemed similar, though Zack didn't seem to have as much baggage as Cloud.

Really, I don't see the argument. They are two different girls, which both have different ways of showing feeling or interest. And remember, just because a girl has sex with one or two people, doesn't mean she's a whore or a slut.


Yeah! She's only a slut when she's still batting eyes at Cloud in the afterlife though she is with her original man. Thankfully, Zack is pimp enough to let it slide. I bet she got it off screen.

XD

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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 1:18 am 
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wow i could write a novel here but ill keep it short.

you can look at this from a few angles. one being that this story is being told in the perspective of cloud, which means apart from the small snipits where cloud isnt present, everything is based on how he views the world and what is revealed to him. anything that doesnt directly effect him is not shown, and how he sees the world is how the story is cast and how what other people say is related.

you could look and see that aeris is recovering from the unexpected disappearance of her last lover, who she sees in cloud (x soldier, the eyes, manorism maybe) and is immediately attracted to that missing gap.

you could see maybe that tifa is suffering from that mostly male symptom of brotherhood, that "i just see you as a friend" crap woman like to dump on us. this thoery doesnt work so well when you place it against some of the other things cloud does, but remember that cloud hasnt seen her in 5 years and his memory is wonky which is why he may not be hot for tifa.

maybe even aeris is just looking to experiment. i find that religious types get curious about things they are forbidden to have which may explain her willingness to flurt and try to find love in cloud. cloud is the bad boy personality after all (mercenary, tough guy attitude, activist).


there is a few more but im not really willing to over anylize it. i dont think aries or tifa are slutty, i dont think the game would get the rating for that and it just wouldnt fit in. as stated by some others here, dating is done differently by different people. its the permiscuity of the person that determines their sluttyness.

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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 8:52 am 
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Fayorei wrote:
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Yeah! She's only a slut when she's still batting eyes at Cloud in the afterlife though she is with her original man. Thankfully, Zack is pimp enough to let it slide. I bet she got it off screen.



:lol That last statement just made my day. Positive karma to you, my dear.

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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 10:28 am 
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KA raised an interesting point, I think. Is it slutty to flirt with a man just after you meet him? In itself, no. Is it slutty to do that after you've lost your previous boyfriend? Still no! I mean, come on,you expected her to whine over Zack forever and ever? If anything, she showed a certain strength of character when she flirted with Cloud. Even though she may have done it because she saw Zack in Cloud, it means she's getting over the loss of Zack himself. You can't blame her for that.

Fayorei wrote:
Yeah! She's only a slut when she's still batting eyes at Cloud in the afterlife though she is with her original man.


Hm, does she do that in FF7? Because the only thing she does in Advent is look at Cloud and smile (ZOMG so slutty!)...

I still stand my ground that neither of the girls is innocent. You can't have an innocent girl unless she's 6 years old, really. But to call Aeris a slut is a bit too much, I think.


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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 12:46 pm 
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The Gnasher wrote:
KA raised an interesting point, I think. Is it slutty to flirt with a man just after you meet him? In itself, no. Is it slutty to do that after you've lost your previous boyfriend? Still no! I mean, come on,you expected her to whine over Zack forever and ever? If anything, she showed a certain strength of character when she flirted with Cloud. Even though she may have done it because she saw Zack in Cloud, it means she's getting over the loss of Zack himself. You can't blame her for that.

Fayorei wrote:
Yeah! She's only a slut when she's still batting eyes at Cloud in the afterlife though she is with her original man.


Hm, does she do that in FF7? Because the only thing she does in Advent is look at Cloud and smile (ZOMG so slutty!)...

I still stand my ground that neither of the girls is innocent. You can't have an innocent girl unless she's 6 years old, really. But to call Aeris a slut is a bit too much, I think.


Haha, I wasn't being life or death serious about the matter, but yeah, what happens all throughout Advent Children with Cloud still pining for her just about the whole movie.

I still just love the scene where Zack comes into the picture, gives Cloud "the look", and then escorts Aeris. Kind of a "I've got my girl, now you go hold yours" kind of thing.

Tifa sure as hell isn't innocent, but she shot off less intense waves than Aeris at me. Aeris isn't a literal whore, I just threw that out there for the lulz. I actually do indeed like Aeris, and had her in my party often until you know when. I just like Tifa's honesty more, with Aeris, it always seemed like she had something to hide.

I'd argue Cait Sith is the most innocent member in the party in FFVII. The owner isn't, but come on, tis only a vessel! XD

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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 12:57 pm 
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Well, Aeris did have something to hide. HER SPECIAL MATERIA THAT DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 1:22 pm 
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If you want to talk innocent then I think the most innocent in the party is RedXIII.

I guess another way you can look at it is if you're going by todays standerds of slutty or the standerds of back when the game was released. It's not going to seem as bad in todays time, but back then it could be a bit more looked down upon. Hah, what do I know?


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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 1:36 pm 
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Lausen wrote:
If you want to talk innocent then I think the most innocent in the party is RedXIII.

I guess another way you can look at it is if you're going by todays standerds of slutty or the standerds of back when the game was released. It's not going to seem as bad in todays time, but back then it could be a bit more looked down upon. Hah, what do I know?


RedXIII is also an awesome character, in my opinion. Easily a favorite.

Standards for slutty back when the game was released were about the same as today in my opinion. People looked at the game from the outside and immediately judged Tifa to be a slut. I think that the character designer should have went with the original plan of giving her pants, but then again, I'm glad he didn't. I think Tifa is the epitome of proving a girl is allowed to look good and have a nice personality to go along with it, though this is almost a fable in today's world.

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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 2:04 pm 
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There are too many generalizations these days.

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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 3:38 pm 
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Sarah's Knight wrote:
of course I never wanted to see some psychopath shove a sword through her ribcage when she was blissfully locked away in a serene state of prayer


i seem to remember laughing like a madman.

c'mon, it was great, no?


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PostPosted: January 4th, 2008, 3:51 pm 
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Regal wrote:
Sarah's Knight wrote:
of course I never wanted to see some psychopath shove a sword through her ribcage when she was blissfully locked away in a serene state of prayer


i seem to remember laughing like a madman.

c'mon, it was great, no?


im sure tifa was in league with sephy to kill that hussy for stealing her man. with religious chick out of the way she could finally put the movies on cloud. the whole thing was a grand conspiracy to get cloud in bed.

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