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PostPosted: November 7th, 2007, 9:59 pm 
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They are blaming a 10 year old boy with matches for the Californias wildfire. See the article below. Your opinions on how you would handle this situation would be welcomed.

www.time.com wrote:
The 10-year-old boy who accidentally started one of the worst California wildfires last month could face stern consequences, should prosecutors decide to bring charges. Though too young to be charged as an adult, the boy could still face millions of dollars in fines, removal from his home and possible detention as a ward of the state. For now the boy's fate — and that of his parents, who would be partially liable for any restitution payments he would have to pay — rests with Los Angeles County District Attorney Steve Cooley. His office told TIME he has not yet decided how to proceed. "The matter is under review," spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons told TIME on Monday. "No decision has been made."
To bring those charges, all Cooley must decide is whether the boy knew right from wrong — an easy standard to meet, other prosecutors in the state say. "That is a lot easier to establish than you would think," said Cyndi Jo Means, a deputy district attorney in nearby San Diego County who leads that county's juvenile division arson team. "Think of your own children, even very small children; most of the time they know when they did something wrong."

Despite the low hurdle to prosecution, Means contends the California juvenile justice system seeks to help young suspects, who can benefit from counseling and close supervision from the court and case workers. Children under 14 are nearly always charged as juveniles, not adults — no matter what the crime. "We try to help the child, and prosecuting them as adults would not be very helpful," Means said. Any finding of guilt, she added, would not follow the boy into adulthood.

Southern Californians are still sorting through the wreckage from the fires, which burned more than 800 square miles — an area 40 times as large as Manhattan — and destroyed some 2,100 homes. The 10-year-old's carelessness sparked the Buckweed fire in Los Angeles County, which destroyed 21 homes and injured at least three people. Those losses have left some residents in a less than forgiving mood. "If you accidentally set a massive fire that destroys homes, causes residents to flee for their lives and requires millions of dollars in resources to extinguish, then you damn well need to pay the piper," wrote Dave Bossert on his online newspaper, The West Ranch Beacon.

Peter Arenella, a professor at the UCLA Law School said any prosecution of a 10-year-old that aims to punish the boy, rather than help him, "is an absurdity. The only justification for that would be if, in some extreme case, there was a need to protect society from him." Barring that, he said, prosecutors should be reluctant to sweep the boy up into the legal system.

It's hard to see how stern consequences — taking the boy from his parents, for instance, and handing down a multi-million fine — would be helpful to the 10-year-old. Much of the decision of whether to prosecute him rests with Cooley, who like prosecutors everywhere has a great deal of discretion. Unless uglier details about the boy's behavior are discovered, he could decide that in this case playing with matches doesn't rise the level of arson — even if the boy admits he knew that doing so was wrong. As Means points out, children almost always admit they knew their actions were wrong when they are questioned by police or prosecutors, which can be a scary experience for a kid.

When the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the death penalty for inmates who were under 18 when they committed their crimes, it argued that teenagers' brains are not fully formed until they are grown, and that punishing them as adults was therefore cruel and unusual. No one is saying a 10-year-old boy ought to be executed for setting a fire, but even the lesser punishment the boy is facing could be nearly as cruel. That has led some to argue that the bar for prosecution ought to be higher than simply proving that he knew right from wrong. Boys know lots of things are wrong — from ignoring bedtimes to eating too many cookies. A better standard, some argue, would be determining whether the boy, at 10, had any way of knowing the consequences of what he was doing with those matches. With reporting by Jill Underwood/San Diego

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A firefighter battles flames at a house that burned to the ground on Camp Plenty Road during a 12,500-acre brush fire that started near Agua Dulce.

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PostPosted: November 7th, 2007, 10:21 pm 
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Well, good thing it won't burn my house. > >


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PostPosted: November 7th, 2007, 10:37 pm 
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DP did you start that fire? Oh wait.. You said your only 7 years old. :p :XD

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PostPosted: November 7th, 2007, 10:41 pm 
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He deserves what he gets.


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PostPosted: November 8th, 2007, 12:06 pm 
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haha, deserves what he gets? suppose we don't know what he's getting yet, but what would you do if he gets nothing? =P

given the fact that an article like this even exists i doubt that nothing will be done... but honestly? i somewhat doubt he knew he was going to do that much damage *shrug* i could be uber wrong maybe he meant to burn down 800 square miles, maybe he was aiming for 1000. find it a bit hard to believe that he meant to do so much damange, or even thought he might. kids are stupid like that. half the time they don't realise what's gone wrong until it already has.

it will have an interesting outcome if nothing else i suppose.

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PostPosted: November 8th, 2007, 12:13 pm 
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I'm going to keep my hands out of this one. But think about it... what good is fining a 10 year old multi-million dollars? Just think about it for a second.

I'm not saying that he should get off with a slap on the wrist, but placing monetary value on his actions at 10 is a little dumb. I mean, I know that those houses will need to be rebuilt, and that is going to cost quite a bit of money... but if they wait for that money from a 10 year old... they may be waiting for a while.

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PostPosted: November 8th, 2007, 12:16 pm 
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Oh, law, how I love thee.

I would agree with the last paragraph that the consequences of what he was doing is the VALID factor.

Seriously, does ANYONE know the difference between 'right' and 'wrong'. If someone thinks there is a universal standard for right or wrong, then I believe they are being naive by thinking their imaginaiton must be consistent with objective reality.

I assert it is about arguing what are the consequences and whether of not the consequences would be 'beneficial' or 'detrimental'.

The problem is that even if he were an adult, he might not know the consequences of what would ACTUALLY happen, but no one would believe him because most adults fail to realize that WE ALL are just big kids and that thus it would not be cruel or unusual to punish as such.

It is a very immature perspective.

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PostPosted: November 8th, 2007, 12:18 pm 
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But... you do have to take into account all the people who are now homeless. I mean, should that be the bigger factor here?

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PostPosted: November 8th, 2007, 12:26 pm 
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@Lantis

I'm not sure if you are responding to me or further elaborating your original thoughts, but yes, I agree that the homless are victims of the actions of another.

What I find frustrating about the law is that the laws of physics have a free pass (because no one assumes non-biological matter has consciousness-thus no responsibility or point in blaiming), so the biological entity assumes all the responsibility and then instead of recognizing all that goes into a mind (besides genetic based development of the brain) a standard is assumed whether or not it actually applies to the biological entity or not.

Rather than work to achieve a social structure that functions off its insurance or lack of security or lack of entitlement alone, someone is made to suffer so that we can all feel better.

REGARDLESS of a deeper level of understanding the concept of 'intention'.

In other words...

I don't know the best way to fix the problem, but I'm not sure everyone wants to fix the problem, but rather kill the pain and that is what frustrates me about the law.

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PostPosted: November 8th, 2007, 12:30 pm 
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I agree with you fully...

But I put myself in their shoes. If my house burnt down... all my belongings like my compy, next gen consoles, HDTV, (not to mention 3 years of work on RPG Maker), and whatever... put me out on the street (actually, worst case scenario... at my parents house), I'd have a hard time not being bitter.

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PostPosted: November 8th, 2007, 12:40 pm 
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Lantis wrote:
I agree with you fully...

But I put myself in their shoes. If my house burnt down... all my belongings like my compy, next gen consoles, HDTV, (not to mention 3 years of work on RPG Maker), and whatever... put me out on the street (actually, worst case scenario... at my parents house), I'd have a hard time not being bitter.


While I agree with you about being bitter and believe that you are entitiled to your feelings, and that your feelings are natural, my concern is that people seem to trust law so much that they think it is even possible to rectify the situation. Somethings are not replaceable and somethings can never be reversed, so I would prefer that people do well to not rely on the law but instead recognize the reality that we live in. That is why everyday, I do more and more to have nothing to lose and to accept that I live in a society where I am not in lone control.

It is easier said than done.

But I wonder how many people are willing to work toward accepting this reality.

Personally, the only thing that would make me bitter about losing in the list you mention is the work you've put into the hardware, not the hardware themselves.

At some point, my goal is to not care about losing the work either.

Anonymous (Bo)

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PostPosted: November 8th, 2007, 2:33 pm 
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Not really alot I'm attached to, but I am attached to my books, my notepads, and a cheap ring that someone once gave me. And I prefer to be attached to these, really.
Hm - two out of three are flamable, it seems.

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PostPosted: November 9th, 2007, 7:45 pm 
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Huh?!

I didn't even notice this thread. So, I can blame that little brat for destroying our San Diego office huh?

So many homes and people's lives destroyed.....Where was that kid's parents?!!! :shakefist

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