Ya. My cat wakes me up at 3 in the morning and I can tell he wants food....

Darklink, I'm confused by your response: "I don't think you should keep this thread; people sometimes fight over religion...". Whos fighting? When I sense a 'Saladin' or 'Richard the Lionhearted' amongst us then maybe it would be time to shut it down. But who do you see thats fighting? There is NOT a fine line between debate and confrontation. Debate is stimulating discussion of the possibility of a lord above, confrontation is me telling you you're stupid for believing in god. As of right now we're just discussing things in a manner most people can't achieve because it all to often goes to confrontation-in a non-combative manner.

Of course animals notify you of their needs-you are an established source of things to sustain these needs. If you are where it gets food-it knows where to go when it needs it. Its not really a complicated thought train for anything, and basic instinct for most. If a cat knows you are the person with the food, the cat will come awake you when its hungry. It is the same instinct that drives a wolf back to the same cattle pens, just different adaptations on the instinct.

No one here is fighting right now, I'm just saying that 'cause it happens alot at my school.

...do you go to a parochial school?

What?! I go to a public school.

Just wondering, I never actually discussed religion at any school I ever went to. It went about as far as saying I was an atheist and them avoiding me. Strikes me as curious that there is actual arguments about religion in the 8th grade.

There is at my school. My school is craaaaazy. There are about 1.6 fights per day at my school.(Not neccesarily over religion). The ".6" is because alot of times the to kids are bout to fight and then a tearcher of principal comes over and deals with them. The biggest fight ever was in the lunchroom last year. About 20 kids jumped one of my friends and boy, did my friend woop them. It looked alot like how Link slatters those Miniblins on Wind Waker.

God.

Nope, I just don't care.

When I was young I created The One True Religion: <i>Apatheism</i> (Apathy + Theology = Apatheology). I don't care if there's a God.

Now that I'm a Born Again Pagan, I practice Earth Worship. Christmas is Solstice. New Years is Perihelion (closest point to the sun in Earth's Orbit), etc. This is not exclusive of Apatheism. You can be both. I am.

God has been nothing but divisive ever since Abraham first opened his big mouth.

Religious Intolerance was virtually non-existent in the days before monotheism. Sure there were arguments and even wars over this stuff, but it was generally to prove whose God was stronger, not who was right and who was wrong.

A vital distinction in my view.

I am also fascinated by all the divisions between Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Protestants, and all the other worshipers of The God of Abraham. Don't they realize that they all worship the same God? Why can't they get along? Why won't they just share Jerusalem and the other geographical places considered sacred to all of those groups?

In my entirely other than humble opinion they are all acting like spoiled children arguing over the rules to a game. They all want to play, but nobody else "is doing it right."

Disgusting.

Why can't they all just live in

Peace.

Because hash is illegal in most industrialized countries.

What I am about to say is off topic, what the heck is up with your avatar, Rodak? It creeps me out....

Now now, we wouldn't want to spam Darklink-they'll come and carry you off in the night.

I get what Rodak is saying at least, and I think the pic is of an old movie monster-he said he liked old movies in his bio.

But seriously, the only peaceful people I know are on drugs. And thats excluding the ones on crack, meth, and heroine. Ecstasy's iffy, but eh there just eating holes in their stomachs so I'll give em some leeway. There are peaceful people I know who are on drugs, but these people have effectively dropped out of society. Marijuana is peace-inducing, so to speak. And hash is about 10 times stronger so hey, it is to. But apart from that its human nature to be combative. It takes either existence as a natural anomaly or years of partaking in personality progression (forcing it out of you) to really get to the point of eliminating aggro sentiments. The tribes of Songhai and Ghana of Africa had politically ELIMINATED WAR by about two hundred years before the Portugese founded the Slave Coast.

Essentially they're sub-categories, each with their different beliefs. Such as, Catholics (to my understanding) also worship Mary the mother of Jesus, while Methodists (myself) don't.

But I agree with you, it's stupid when they're fighting over who is right. They can't really coexist in one church if they have differences like the aforementioned, as they have different teachings going on, but that doesn't mean they should argue with one another outside of church.

How on earth do you know this stuff?

I'll go and edit in an explanation of the Avatar in my "Newbies Look Here" thread self-introduction. The short version is that He is Rodak.

<><><>
EDIT:
<><><>

http://www.rpgmmag.com/forums/viewtopic ... 1588#21588

Done.

<><><><>
END EDIT
<><><><>

Back On Topic:

You left out LSD!! Now <i>that's</i> a peace inducing drug.

But you do not need to be on drugs to like peace. You just need to be a rational human being to see that it is the right thing.

I wrote that last post at work. Let me say that I was not aggressing at individuals of any faith, just the whole groups.

I know their differences. I had a lot of that on my way to getting an accidental Philosophy Degree. But I am still confused why those differences breed such hatred. Surely they know that if there is a God, he would not be pleased.

Here is another God thought:

I always said that if I ever meet the big idiot I'd have one question for him before he sent my Pagan butt to Hell: What <i>ever</i> were you on when you created the platypus... and may I please have some?

If I have time I'd ask just why he promised the same holy land to so many different reilgious groups too.

Then I'd smack him on his bald spot, goose him, and burn eternally.

Peace.

I agree with Rodak's points mainly.

If there is an ever-loving God, I doubt he would desire to see some of the hate crimes that go on in this country and other ones over our differences.

I don't really have a religion though... I just... it isn't a HUGE part of my life, I guess. I should have elaborated in my first post but, I will now.

I was brought into this world at 8 PM on July 24th, 1987. As a baby... my father prevented me from getting baptized. I was told this was because he wanted me to choose my own direction in life, and not be bound by religion. My mom was raised a Catholic, so she was a bit shaky with that idea at first. But earlier, my mom had become discontent with the atmosphere of church, yet she still believes in God. She is a Deist. My father was a Baptist at this time, I believe.

So yeah, here I am as a child. I'm not blessed, both my parents didn't attend church regularly, and I shoulder the weight of hearing all my friends talk about church and give me a weird eye when I simply say I've never attended.

Flash forward. My parents are divorced now, and my father is dating a Catholic woman. I go over for my Christmas visit, I'm told to bring dress clothes- I figured it was because it was a family gathering. I'm told we're going to Christmas mass... I got very uncomfortable to say the least. So, I go to this thing, and the entire ritual seems like it's just being done so people won't go to hell. That's it. I saw no energy in the prayers. It looked just felt like desperate people clinging to ideals, but not indulging in them.

The priest however, did seem energized. As I guess is the usual. But then something happens... he tells a story that goes along with "The Night Before Christmas". It's basically about how a family didn't repent and was destroyed in an armageddon. It was HIGHLY uncomfortable for me, it almost felt like brainwashing. The next year, I told my father I would stay at his house instead of going. Not only did it feel awkward, it also felt a bit uncomfortable due to the whole pews-knees thing.

So I guess if I were to ever come to believe in God, I'd be Deist like my mother. For now, I am Agnostic. I celebrate Christmas not because of religion, but for the sense of believing in family that has developed into the tradition with gift giving.

I agree that we shouldn't necessarily argue with each other about our beliefs, but we should share what we believe. And what better place than here. (In order to do that, of course, we have to know what it is that we believe.)

No one person can change another person's heart. I have had some interesting conversations with some Muslim friends of mine. They have shared what they believe and I have shared my beliefs. I can't get someone to change their relationship with God. I can hope and I can pray that God moves in that person's heart. He is the only one who changes people. God does use people to help open other people's minds though.

In our society, if someone tries to share their beliefs sometimes (unfortunately) they are labeled as intolerant. I am a Christian. I believe what the Bible says. That means that I believe that a person can only get to God through Jesus. This isn't me (an individual) saying this. It's what the Christian Holy Book shows as Jesus himself saying. So, I can feel free to share that with people because it is what the Bible says. If someone has a problem with that statement, for example, they really don't have an argument with me. They have to take this up with God Himself.

Well, anyway, just wanted to see what you guys thought. I've not commented in this post in a few days. It definitely is interesting to see the vast variety of opinions that are here. I'm glad to be part of such a cool community. I mean people on this forum go from giving each other RPG maker advice, to inventing unusual art, to discussing religious convictions. It's awesome.

I have no problem with personal faith of any sort.

I only have problems with organized religions.

Did not Christ preach for the abolition of churches?

My favorite Bible passage is when Jesus is going on about how "if you are plowing your field and you feel the need to pray or confess, put down your plow, kneel, and pray. God will hear you. You do not need a church"

Maybe I should not have put that in quotes... it's been a while since I read the Bible. But that is pretty much his point even if I got a word or two out of place.

I do like to stress my problems with organized religion to the point where people think I have a problem with faith in general. That is not true.

I respect any firmly held belief so long as it does not come to prosthelitizing or shouting matches.

As a Scientist by profession I fully recognize that Believing in The Big Bang is just as big a leap of faith as Believing in God (and often taunt people about it).

But I point out there is a difference between accepting Big Bang Theory as the best explanation of the observable evidence and believing it happened.

Is it off topic to start discussing Intelligent Design and the recent Dover, PA Federal Trial?

Peace.

Yeah, I read my last post and it was WAY lacking in details. I read over this post and realize your about to read to much.
Well...this does remind me of an exchange between regal and I. Its on page one, and it concerns hedonism. I essentially surmised that hedonism was the essence of human nature. I think that hedonism and war, in essence, co-mingle. Hedonism leads to war in MOST cases. Some could argue that pride and dignity lead people to war, but then I would argue that pride and dignity are ramifications of hedonism. So its all in the eye of the beholder. But I might as well waste space with my oppinions.

Being a rational human being is NOT up to you for the most part. Now in my last post I did allow for self-change, so you can change-but no control who you initially are. Your personality, on the subject of it's development, is mixed with three succinct factors: Genetics, Environment, Role-Models. You are more of a pinball bouncing along for the ride-that is until you complete the "identity crisis" phase. When you generally know 'who you are'. After that you are your own man. The mind has quit being impressioned so...directly by your environment. So if you have a hippie mother and a salesman father like I did, you will most likely end up being permissive and at ease. But then you forget the other two factors. Genetics; say my father was an alcoholic. I then have that strain in my makeup, and that COULD affect me. Say some punk lives in a neighborhood were people treat The Chronic like necessity and liquor like life's nectar: you will almost infallably follow this role considering that each person stops considering the parent as a true source of inspiration and conforms to cliques. But each human, and human experience, is unique. We all KNOW what the ideal is, and at the same taken we all REALIZE it isn't us. Because, barring egomania, no matter your benefits you will only covet the traits of another, its nature. Now there are those who, as I said impression is capable in the later years, find everything perfectly acceptable. And then there are those who can do this at an alarmingly young age, these are the 'old souls'. Those who accept and admire, rather than covet or desire. Because, again, each human and human experience is unique and unplottable. So while guesses can be placed on the outcome of a personality-none can tell which of the three factors will override. Will it be the hippie mother? Will it be the alcoholic genes? Will it be the bad neighborhood? Only your cerebellum can say.

And while I concede the impossiblity of a perfect being-I also purport that there are some closer to the 'ideal' then others. For instance, according to societies established moral values-another imaginitive "reality" for what men "should" be-rationale is ordained as a positive trait. Free thought (this just proves mans ability to say one thing and do another) also is held on a mantle. So why is it that some people come closer to this than others? Well it comes down to the factors. If you posess rationale it is either through the proper factors coming into alignment or through self-change. Your not always in control, but you Always are in the end. But by a time much sooner than the 'end' you have adjusted-humans despise change-to your ways, and that is partially why self-control/change is challenging. Hedonism is in not only human nature, but societies nature (generally, I cannot stress it enough: generally-remember the Songhai and Ghana). So while common sense to be rational can be posessed Rodak, humans are not naturally rational. Otherwise we'd be in a perpetual counterpart to...hmm: Valenor's Shores. Not happening, too much that we cannot control and are unwilling to change once we do control. So to sum it up: I think that humans have ideals that they desire to meet, but ultimately are permissive in attaining them due to inherent hedonism. So rationale is good, if you've got the will to have it. And common sense should NEVER be confused with rationale. Rationale is deciding the RATION (good old fashion lexicology) of good or bad or whatever the inner debate is=how to deal with it. Common sense is merely knowledge of what you should do. And drugs give peace, it's true. They give peace through...'bad' means. You are permissive, not peaceful. Permissive is not healthy, it only leads you to a rude awakening. Especially concerning drugs...and LSD? Please. Hallucenogens are so not worth the trouble of even getting into drugs. I mean, drugs are evil and all that but-why do it if you don't even get a real reward? That and LSD stays in your system for decades, meaning you could have an hallucination while teaching your class because you tried it when you were 19. Nope. Not For Me.



Yeah, I went to church once or twice when I was a tot, but apart from that it was...You don't go to church? You never read the bible? Satan-worshipper!(that has actually happened with different words before).



What the Songhai-Ghana declaration against war? Its called history class, crack a book.

Nope, we've done it before. In fact we've done ALOT of it considering I'm an atheist and I started this with several long statements. And everyone Long answers if you feel up to seeing what has already been said. So yeah, go for it.



Indubidably. For I do not necessarily believe it, but I accept it as the most likely.

That intrigued me. I've never heard of that passage before. I did a little checking though and found these. "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62 - Jesus, talking to a man who was telling Jesus he couldn't follow him then.

There is another verse in chapter 17 where Jesus is telling his disciples about a man who has a worker who plows. These were the only two quotes of Jesus I found with the word plow or plowing in them.

Anyway, you're right that Jesus was against the teaching of the Pharisees at the time (organized religion), who had added law upon law to God's requirements, totally ignoring the motivation of the person following those laws. Also, this salvation by works mentality went against Jesus reason for coming to earth since He's the one who earned salvation for us. There is a saying that Christianity is not about religion, it's about a relationship. I know that's cliche, but it's still true. Religion is man trying to get to God. Christianity about God coming to man.

-----------------------------------

I'm heading off for right now, but I would be interested in hearing people's opinions on Intelligent Design, too.

Good night all.