In order to hide the sure shame I would bring upon the person I'm talking about, I'm (NOT) going to use his name.

But my friend and I were talking last night, and this motherf*cker said that 0/0 = 1. I told him that was completely wrong but he wouldn't listen to me, espousing that any number divided by itself is 1.

Mr. Friend, YOU CAN NOT DIVIDE UP NOTHING. If it's 1/0, you can't divide 1 by NOTHING. If it's 0/0, how can NOTHING divided by NOTHING be SOMETHING?

I await your rebuttal.

Personally, I would not say that 0/0 is just 1, but is in fact all real numbers.

As 0/0 is actually 0(x) = 0, this actually makes it into a valid equation, where any real number could be substituted for x to give you an answer of 0...

If you want to talk math like this, I think you need to go outside of the "you can't divide nothing by nothing" world, and go to the "what does this actually mean in mathematical terms" world.

edit: I am not the person Ixz is talking about.

Anything multiplied or divided by 0 = 0. Anything divided by itself is 1, true, however anything divided or multiplied by 1 should like wise equal itself. Since 1 does not enter the equation nor does it exist at the outset, then the rules of PEMDAS and FOIL dictate that anything divided/multiplied by 0 = 0 presupposes any thing divided by itself equals 1. In short, the 0 equation works both ways and the divided by itself = 1 equation does not.

Check. And Mate.
(your welcome Ix.)

Too bad I didn't have the technical chops to put zeroes into my Calculator game, otherwise you could have just punched in the numbers.

But yes, 0/0=0. No question. You can't expect to get something out of nothing.

No, Ix is right. You cannot divide by nothing.

You cannot split anything or nothing into groups of nothing. 0 is a tool, not a number.

<_<

It's undefined because anything divided by zero can be divided an infinite number of times, not none at all.

As facts touched on, rewriting the equation is all you need to do.

0/0 = x is hard to work with, so

0 * x = 0

Any number can be substituted for x and be correct. Working backward, it's not a big stretch of the imagination to realize x/0 is infinitely divisible even if the number being divided was already nothing.

Stripping away logic and other (unrelated) mathematical rules and leaving only the math itself.. there isn't much room for any other conclusion.

Edit:: Also can't take this math and attach physical dimensions to it, like saying something from nothing or dividing up a cake amongst nobody to get nothing from something. I can do the same thing to prove my point - How many lactose intolerant lives will be saved by not serving the cake? Infinite.
1 (cake)/0(people eating cake) = infinite lives not lost.

Basically, word play doesn't apply here.

Edit2:: Also lol at facts saying basically the same thing while I was typing that edit

But you guys are trying to explain division of 0 by 0 by real world scenarios by saying "you can't divide nothing by nothing". In the real world, that's true, but this is the mathematical world.

Basically...in the real world, I'm right. In the mathematical world, you're right.

And Mr. Friend is right in neither. Gotcha.

The only problem with your explanation is that you're using real world ideas to explain mathematical problems. You still reached the right conclusion (although I'm not sure you had the right definition of undefined) but your methods of reaching it were questionable, and false when compared to the actual math behind it.


Your conclusion that it is undefined = right. Your definition of undefined, based on the logic you used, is seemingly wrong. Your logic used does not apply to the question being discussed.

His conclusion is wrong, but better than saying it's 0. His logic does not apply. Understanding that you CAN divide by 0 is cool, but knowing you can't pinpoint one specific answer = priceless.

All I need to know is that 0/0 is undefined. I'll never need to know why.

Boom.

Boom boom boom boom
I want you in my room
Let's spend the night together
From now until forever
Boom boom boom boom
I wanna go boom boom
Let's spend the night together
Together in my room

zero is a place holder. its an interesting piece of logic.

If you wanted to be cheeky, you could semantically argue his point, I suppose, but somehow I doubt that's what he was getting at.

He was saying it literally, yes? Not making a word game out of it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_by_zero

the wiki page listed above is really interesting. it explains the logic of zero in a few different types of mathamatics and how it behaves in each. worth a read for sure.

the problem is that the question is wrong. logic is used to resolve a logical statement and math is rooted in logic. if you have 1 apple and wish to divide it amongst 0 people then that is an illogical statement. as there are no people to divide it to, the question cant exist logically, as its a nonsensical question. without people to divide it against the statement is false, meaning there can be no answer because the value is undefined. there is no logical possibility to divide something against nothing because the possibility cant exist.

logic is hard to wrap around and i found it extraordinarily difficult to define a nill value without using some form of its wording.


edit: it violates logic by being a false statement. wiki tangents spiral into so many other pages, logs of meaty stuff out there.

That article strengthens the stance facts and I outlined.

fyi.



Pretty damn similar to the example I used that shows why the logic that was being used isn't valid.

In conclusion of the 0/0=x and 0*x=0 problem given in the wiki using slightly different numbers:



It goes on to note the rule that 0/0 can't really have a single answer, so this isn't an adequate equation to show any acceptable answer for the equation - higher mathematics being necessary to come to the conclusion.

Then it shows why or why not division by 0 is acceptable in various different mathematical disciplines.

Fact is, the ones that can't do it adhere strictly to real numbers and those that can don't give a f*ck if the numbers are real. It even notes some calculators are coming away from the "undefined" or "error" status of x/0 equations and are now showing infinity as the answer.

What it comes down to is choice. Similar to how in English we say we're turning "onto" roads, but "into" driveways as if a driveway is somehow a container. Or how in British English you can live "in" a certain street, which is the same as in American English saying you live "on" a certain street. Neither mean you are homeless. The only thing that matters is the logic that gets you there, even if representation of the result is different.

Undefined or infinite: same meaning.

tldr that wiki says it's possible in theory, which math largely is, but not possible (read: undefined, because there's no single solution) in reality. Literally the same thing we've been saying.

I was "the friend"... and I was trollin'.

I smelled something.

the zero is a lie.

simple explination of division by zero: If (1) tree falls in the woods and (0) people are around to hear it, does it make (1) sound? In the mathematical world, if something can't be distributed (and in a problem of division, the number we want is the number of distributions) then we have to say 0 because NOTHING got distributed.

From a distribution point of view, I have heard that it is like saying how many zeros can "fit" into a number. From that answer you could equal say infinity as Stythe has mentioned because the number 5 has 5 plus any number or infinite amount of zeros in it. For example, 5 = 5 plus 0 + 0 +...

So yes, nothing (0) got distributed, but it got distributed any number to an infinite amount of times.

I am still unclear as to what this argument is about because in the mathematical world, at least the traditional canon of mathematics, division by zero is undefined even for 0/0. I guess I don't want to appeal to authority on this one, but is this a question of simply not knowing that mathematical truth or is it about knowing that it is accepted as undefined mathematically canonically and yet still challenging the authority on the matter? If you ask a professional mathematician (go do it if you are in college) they will tell you that in the mathematical world, division by zero is undefined and since it is undefined, it is avoided as a mathematical operation.

EDIT: Certainly I do not object to the nature of philosophical argumentation and I welcome the the challenge to traditonal notions of truth. Where I am concerned is that people keep saying that things like "in the mathematical world". I mean if we want to argue in a theoretical world that we create via wordplay or conceptual arrangement then so be it. But if we are limiting our modal domain to the mathematical world than mathematicians will be the first to tell you that division by 0 of any number is a challenge to sustaining the very foundation of the mathematical world (because it can lead to unacceptable paradoxes) and therefore it is not executed "in the mathematical world".