point:

Metroid prime 2. Roll into a ball and go into a secret passageway. OH WOW LOOK! SIDE SCROLLING!

here is a first person game with side scrolling elements. It is popular.
Now here is a side scrolling game with first person elements. Reviews are mixed.

It would be appropriate to make a comparison to Zelda And Mario games except that those games were not side scrollers, they were third person views. I agree that if you are planted in one spot while shooting in first person that is not fair. Even 3D Zelda games let you side step in FPM at least.

To me, it does seem like a bit of a gimmick. On the other hand, if it is used in specific cases, like puzzle solving, or boss battles, then I would deem it appropriate. If it is some thing that you can do when ever, just because, and has no real point except to be a camera mode, then I think the reason we see it as "tacked on" is because marketing a camera control as a selling point is kind of A) Redundant (ALL games should have this feature by now...), and B) Gay (...So why bother mentioning it?).

I dunno, some of the clips from the video leads me to believe that some portions are not side-scrolling, but free roam.

Your opinion of anything metroid should no longer be taken seriously by anyone on the planet, and this seriously harms, if not completely destroys, the validity of all your video game related opinions.

I have played the Metroid Prime games (including personally beating the first game) and seen the Metroid (2D side scroller) games in action. I maintain that you are relying on an ad hominem attack instead of addressing the merits of my criticisms specifically. You certainly have no obligation to address them, but if you are going to rely on ad hominem attacks instead of the merit of the actual arguments that I presented at length previously, then I am not going to find your conclusion above that my opinions are not to be taken seriously, persuasive as I see no relelvance to my specific criticisms. Regardless of my exposure to or experience with the original Metroid games or the later Metroid Prime games, I still have enough video game experience Metroid related and otherwise to produce the detailed concerns above. Nothing can negate that.

your criticisms are without merit. there is nothing to address.

a torrent of giant squid could errupt from my mailbox right now, and that would make more sense than the things errupting from your fingers.

And your concern is that you might think that you are able to move around in first-person view, just 'cause you played the Metroid Prime games, where you could? That's like saying that you think Mario games should have enemies with HP and special attacks, just 'cause you've played Mario RPGs. The games are different enough that any similarities present are simply because they're from the same franchise.

Congrats, Bo, you took a philosophy class.

Nobody gives a f*ck. Just sayin'. Arguments don't work the way you had them taught to you in school.

Valk is right - your direct admittance of not playing the original Metroid games completely ruins your entire argument. You're comparing generations of games while not even having played one of the generations.

Seriously, go away. I don't want to see you posting on that subject until you have an opinion that is actually backed with experience.

@Dray: That standpoint is very awkwardly similar to the one I had to use on you during the FFXIII escapade. Please tell me it carries over now.

I am not comparing generations of games. I am fully giving credit to this game as being an upgrade to the traditional side scroller from the limited amount that I've seen. But I am also saying that regardless of whether or not this game is a side scroller, third person, RTS or otherwise in the switch to first person, it will remind those of us who have played Metroid Prime of Metroid Prime and it will frustrate us that unlike Metroid Prime, we cannot move forward or backward while apparently "exploring" the world or "battling" from a fixed position. I have enough experience to reasonably believe this and regardless of all your unpersuasive, rude, and potentially bullying assertions to the contrary I still completely maintain this. As I said above that may not be an issue for those coming to this game from playing the side scrollers (and since I did not play those games I made the arguments both ways) but I am saying from my experience that for those of us who are coming to it from Metroid Prime games, we will see it differently. Does anyone here who has played the Metroid Prime games, regardless of whether or not they played the side scrollers, think they won't be frustrated that they can't move in first person?

You drew a clear and direct line between the generations - three, so far as I can tell. You have them grouped as the old 2D sidescrollers, the Primes, and the beginning of a third. Whether or not these are the literal generations Metroid has seen, they are what you have defined. You could even call it some other term, but "generation" is fitting plenty.

Now, I had to go over this exact bs sort of standpoint with Dray when discussing FFXIII. Video gamers are FAR too attached to things that are not a given fact - that is, franchises do not always stay the same from game to game, or even generation to generation. Your disappointment at the way this next one is looking based on how the old ones looked is... based entirely on a truly arbitrary distinction of what makes the franchise what it is.

The notion that you put forth yourself, the distinct difference between two generations of Metroid games, shows that you understand this. Why does this next change come as a surprise to you? Why are you disappointed? Are you just taking the piss right here?

Do you know that you come off as a troll to nearly everybody?

Have you always been a troll?

I don't think you ever joined in the discussion, but you may find this relevant (page 1 is less so) if just in its key and general points. Take away all the Metroid references and this is essentially the exact same argument you're trying to make.

I'm sorry, but, stop. Right now. You're more logical than this.

I'll admit I can't really say how much FF13 feels like an entry in the Final Fantasy franchise, as I've never played it. (Though I still thought the idea of "no towns" was dumb.) But I've played FF12, and that just did not feel like Final Fantasy to me. And I compared generations of games, having played almost every one of them. And so your argument makes mine valid, however opinionated.

As for this Metroid: Other M vs Metroid Prime argument, I'm out. Once again, it's proving impossible to make any headway against Bo's arguments. Actually, I might agree one one point: there were a few times in Zelda where I went into first-person view to shoot an arrow/hookshot, see that I'm not lined up properly, and then have to get out of first-person view, shift a little and go back into it.

More info @Bo that spawned after reading Dray's post:

This is why video gamers tend to piss me off. They look at trailers, other peoples reviews, or some other media to get information and form opinions. Absolutely NONE of these will EVER give you the full picture, and people get stuck with opinions that aren't fully informed and when told why something is the way it is they just write it off or sit there like a moron. Get the whole picture to begin with, or play the f*cking game and THEN whine about it.

For this reason, I'm also stepping out of this Metroid sh*t. I brought up an old topic to point out the similarity in arguments that are formed off misinformed ideas and overly presumptuous judgements, not to have a Metroid thread plagued with more FF13 whining. When it comes down to it, nobody cares what Bo is saying because nothing he's saying has any relevance whatsoever. Play the things you're comparing or shut the f*ck up. We don't need your selective fanboy bullsh*t on this forum, thanks.

@Dray:
viewtopic.php?p=127186#p127186

On that note, back to regularly scheduled programming lest I or someone else lay the smackdown yet harder. Mods always get the last word, deal with it.

I completely agree and that is why I made my post and that is PRECISELY why I think it is valid. This trailer may very well get a lot of people to rush out there and buy the game because the trailer makes it look good (I mean they are trying to do their best to sell it right?) and to people like myself, this trailer may suggest that it plays at times like Metroid Prime. But wait, before I throw them $60, shouldn't I check into it whether or not it will deliver the way that I expect from the trailer? That is the concern I expressed and luckily Valkysas informed me that I will not be able to move forward of backwards.

It is unrealistic to expect everyone to first play the game before deciding whether or not they are going to pay to play the game. One cannot rent every game and one cannot even when renting always play it enough to see if it is worth buying. That is why gamers have to at times consider trailers, reviews by others, and even speculation to think about whether or not they should purchase the game.

To me, it is not about getting the "full picture" and it is certainly not about fanboyism, it is about bringing up relevant concerns before parting with $60.

That entire post is bullsh*t you're making up on the spot to save face. It's also almost completely unrelated to the point. The bit you quoted was intended to outline a specific act video gamers do - judge games and elements of the games by trailers/reviews alone.

That point, as you seem to have read it, is NOT why you made your post. You made your post to complain about a gameplay mechanic that you judged based on the trailer. And then later reinforced by displaying your complete lack of understanding of what made Metroid popular in the first place... which is the way the point was intended. You displayed PERFECTLY why I said that.

Bringing up whether or not to spent 60 bucks on the game is totally unrelated. That's the same retarded argument pirates tend to use. Most of them hide behind it like it justifies their bullsh*t and end up never buying whatever it is the subject is, anyway.

I did say I was out of the thread, and you continued to post in it addressing me. This should now come as no surprise.