I'll be honest here; I'm getting impatient.

So I have one big question for you guys out there making long spawling epics that have been in development for more than 6 years....

WHAT'S TAKING SO LONG?

There's no doubt I'm still interested in games still in development. But there's only a certain amount of time I'm willing to wait until I just get tired of waiting.

I think a fatal flaw in the rpgmaker community is far too many people go for the Working Designs routine. Delaying and delaying a game's release until everything is perfect.

And guess what? That company's not around anymore. There's a reason for that, y'think?

We have to set standards and make release dates, then follow up on them. If you have to work double time to make the release date, so be it. I'm starting to think that the lack of motivation is just a lack of love for the game itself. And if you don't like a section of the game, cut it! If you don't like it, then the player won't like it.

I've always had my projects done on time. It's because the pressure of making that release date and delivering forces me to work harder and spend time more wisely. Take my recent example, my Time System Tech Demo. I announced a release date of August 30th before I even got very far into production. Because of that, I had to cut areas and streamline the game, and I finished the game 10 days ahead of schedule. I plan to do one final playtesting bug sweep, and the game will be finished, leaving me 5 days to worry about nothing.

Some of you will cry "quality control!", or "bug free!", and to that extent you may have a point. But I just have to say I'm getting tired of waiting, and I'm beginning to question if developers who take so long even care about their game at this point, since it's obviously going to be released "someday", which could mean "sits on the computer until it's released in 2109".

Now, it's your turn to discuss. I want to hear your opinion on this, game developer or no.

Siren's Reef is done. Just needs to be gametested by Ixzion and I will have it up for everyone to play.

Not sure it's really related to perfectionism. I'm betting a lot of people aren't even working on the game at all. What's that stem from?

1) Missing resources critical to understanding or finishing an event
2) Losing enthusiasm for working on the game
2a) because the game isn't really that good
2b) because you don't think it would be worth it
3) The end result is funner than the work itself.
4) Starting a fresh project is funner than the work itself.
5) Because THE GAME

I have basicly neglected EVERYTHING RPG maker related.
There have been many reasons, at different times. Lack of time, lack of playstation, lack of enthusiasm, lack of interest.
I know I should have been more committed to it, specially since I said at one point that "if it's not done by the end of 2009, it will never be finished. But the thing is, while I want people to play and like my game, I don't feel that I should hurry and finish it for them.
Why? In my case it's insecurity, I'll admit. I just think that my game will suck anyway at the end, and I'll be the only one that will enjoy it. This doesn't mean I won't finish it ever, it just means that I want to work on it and enjoy the process, and not rush it.
And I'm not getting paid.

You suck, Spoom.

Over the years, Slayers' Reign has been delayed for the following reasons. In no particular order.

#1
First it was on RM2K. We couldn't have that.

#2
First project on RPGM1. I had no idea what I was doing at the time. I eventually restarted completely from scratch, and attempted a practice project in between.

#3
Various other projects I attempted. Some more successfully than others. Jester's Hunt being the most successful. There's also EVIL. And there's the projects I started but didn't finish, like Ratz & Meece, Dungeon Crawled, Something Stupid IX, Elements of Darkness, and Jester's Hunt 2. Didn't finish, but did put in enough effort to make something playable.

#4
When I first got into the furry fandom. Initially there was my great drawing spree. Then I hung out away from here at a furry website for a while.

#5
I had to restart from scratch another time because I accidentally deleted my progress, not remembering that I had a backup. And then I accidentally deleted the backup, too.

#6
The previous demo, I painstakingly went over the demo I released in 2003, and made improvements in every place I could see, plus extended the length of the demo.

#7
Writer's block. The worst I ever had. Ever since the release of the '07 demo. There's a big chunk of game that I honestly have no idea what to do with. I have Point A. I have Point D. I have Point F. I'm missing Points B, C, and E. And the worst part about it is, there's nothing in the rest of the plot that could be "fixed" by using that gap, meaning whatever gets put into the gap, it's very likely going to have to be filler. I absolutely refuse to put in filler. But I can't just close the gap by connecting Point A to Point D, either. So I'm stuck.

#8
Then there was the MagCon '09 demo, which was the last time I worked on it. I was just getting into making LPs, and the LPs have been a big distraction since then. The biggest distraction right now, at least until I reach "Point A", at which point I'll be skrewed if I haven't come up with anything. The LPs are a distraction I hope to end with the "season finalé" in the next couple months. But here's how I go through the LPs, just to give you an idea of just how time-consuming they are for me.

I record each episode (of around an hour of gameplay) using two separate programs: my video capture device for the game, Audacity for the commentary. The easiest thing I could do is take the two, edit them together in Windows Movie Maker, and be done with it. But video editing has proven really fun for me, so I've been taking it furthur. For each game, I create a little title sequence and some end credits. For the start of a new game, this also includes using my digital camera for an introduction to the LP. I also scan the commentary, silencing the background noise, and editing out all the headset creaks and heavy breathing I can find. Then I put the video and commentary in WMM, making sure they're in sync. And I watch the whole thing, adding some additional thoughts through text, and editing out/speeding up redundant portions like random encounters and me being lost. (Eventually I get to the point that I've done so much editing that WMM lags a couple seconds for each action I make.) After I'm done editing, I save the video, which takes anywhere from 20-50 minutes, depending on the size of the video. If it takes over 50 minutes, odds are the video's saving in too big a file, and I have to re-save at a lower size. Uploading to Viddler takes none of my free time, on account I start the upload as I leave for work. But when I get back, I have to edit all the videos of that LP to link to the new video, and I have to come to here and the Pavilion to let everyone know the new episode is up.

And that's it for a normal episode. Overall, between playing the game, then watching what I just played while editing it, we're talking around 3 hours of work overall. But, fun work. And that "fun" part is key, because occasionally, I might get a special idea to really add to an episode. Look no furthur than WTF, Mates? and Dave Carter Special for the biggest examples. I really found some love in video editing, so it's no wonder I'm up to 41 episodes of Let's Playing. Maybe once Slayers' Reign is done, I'll become an RPGM LPer fulltime.

In the meantime, I've been uploading all episodes to YouTube. Naturally, that creates a problem, because YouTube doesn't allow videos as long as these. So I have to go through the videos, again, and split them apart in the most convenient (or most "time for a commercial breakery") points. While they're uploading, I'm doing something away from the computer. After they're done, I go into them, edit links, and that's a lot more links to edit what with each episode being split into pieces, add them to the playlist, and make sure my main page is showing the videos properly. And being that YouTube is over 20 episodes behind, it's gonna be quite a while before they're caught up.

#9
Next, there's Second Life. A distraction I like too much to get rid of.

#10
This sorta ties in with Second Life, but I love online chatrooms. Yeah, I know you guys sometimes don't see me in this one, but that's because I'm off doing one of the other numbers in this list. Sometimes I'll have the same distraction with message forums, and I'll just hover on a forum, hitting the refresh button over and over, until somebody makes a post.

#11
And yes, perfectionism is one reason. However, for much of what I've created so far, there's almost nothing else I can think of to improve it. When I actually do get back to Slayers' Reign, I can only move forward. EDIT: Oh, and when I create something like a custscene, I tend to test-play it over and over before I even finish it, not because I want to make sure it works, but because I really like what I'm creating.

#12
This isn't a distraction, yet, but sometime in the future I want to get back to drawing that skunk comic. After I'm done LPing.

#13
Finally, sometimes I just simply do not feel like working on Slayers' Reign. My enthusiasm for it has dwindled a little after all these years. And I think that, as long as it's been and as many times as it's been hyped, I don't think it's gonna live up to anybody's expectations. Which is why I never talk about it anymore, and why I had the demo removed. It'll still be awesome for me. But if I were the only one I wanted to please with the project, I wouldn't bother finishing it to begin with. I play it out to myself in my head enough. I've got nothing to prove to myself, and I'd honestly rather all of you forgot about it. Seriously, I've been tempted to tell you guys that it's been cancelled, just so that I'm not as stressed about working on it.

And by the way...

Yeah, they ran out of money. Don't think that's as much a problem for us.

I myself am not making any epic games (well maybe one long one but that is way on the backburner). Most of my games will be of reasonable length.

Nor do I worry about overtesting for bugs. I am confident with basic and brief testplaying.

My problem, other than real world stuff, is that I have too many game ideas I want to see made, and while I don't ever lose interest in any of my projects, sometimes I am more focused on other games.

Artistically, philosophically, and spiritually, there is no need to force it and it will also make the game not worth playing, so I just have to wait for the right time. I do hope to release all my games but if none of them get done so be it as long as I am functioning harmoniously with what I feel interested in or motivated to express.

part of my problems is due to work grinding me into dust. when i get home all i want to do is play a fun online game to take me away from everything. the other bulk is the dread is indecision.

there are so many routes to take a game that us working design type designers want to try them all at once and fail horribly at doing so. sometimes the hardest part is to realize that some stuff should be left out. i keep adding features and soon there isnt any space left for playable content.

epic style planing is needed to get quickly through a mass game production to keep it on tract and on time. much of a game is difficult or even tedious depending on what the designer wants to do and how he manipulated the software to most closely achieve this. many mini games take around a month to produce from their first conception to actually figuring out how to do it. in the end ive scrapped hundreds of hours of work, sometimes entire sessions without saving just because what i made wont work or takes up far too much memory. often i will look over old stuff and find that i dont have the heart to continue or that its not exciting to me and just turns into a huge road block.

in the end it comes done to two things: excuses and perfectionism. both of which will stall any epic forever.

Allright 1ce, you got me motivated.

I am motivated to show how much perfectionism wastes expression.

Let's see if anything comes out of this...

Quality control!

Bug free!

ಥ﹏ಥ

[quote=Draygone]
Yeah, they ran out of money. Don't think that's as much a problem for us. [/quote]

Well, you know what I mean.

The Working Designs template of "delaying a game until it's PERFECT", is not a good one to follow.



The new design process I follow is one where I enjoy what I'm doing.

Yes, that sounds silly, but I find it actually works, and keeps my motivation going. I really have enjoyed making some games over the last couple months, and if I get to a particular section I don't like, or really dread doing, then I cut it out. If I don't have fun coding it in, why should the player enjoy playing it?

Now that doesn't mean I cut everything I don't enjoy, because sometimes I have to work on something I don't enjoy making. But it really speeds up the progress of my game