For Chrissake.

For Chrissake, guys, don't ever let anyone, no politician or patriotic moron, tell you that war is a cool thing.
Don't ever let any words cloud your understanding of what a war really is.
Back in Vietnam, you had depressed soldiers because they were disillusioned with finding out they weren't really fighting for the Greater Good.
Don't ever let that illusion get to you, never, ever.
There is no Greater Good.
And this is no nihilistic crap, this is merely a fact.
"Fighting your your country" is NOT EQUAL TO "fighting for the Good".
"Foreign" is NOT EQUAL TO "evil".

The world is not divided between Us and Them. Between My Country and Foreign. Between Good and Evil.
The world is one huge place, you just happened to be born in the country that you were born in.

Read the news.
If you distrust them so much, find a foreign site written in English.
Don't be alienated.

Damn, everyone with a teeny weensy bit of brains knew that Iraq had no mass destruction weapons, but had an awful lot of petroleum instead.
USA's federal vaults end in deficit every year because of the military expenses, you know. 08 has the greatest since World War II. You're the country in the world that spends the most in 'defense'.

'Defense'. Hah, that's a good one.

Bush Doctrine, you know that? The guy who said the US would attack unilaterally and preemptively any country they deemed dangerous.
You know what that means, right?
"We can attack anyone who we think it's dangerous, without consulting anyone first and without waiting for them to attack us first."
You know what that means, right?

Reread that.

This line of thinking is so ABSURD it hurts. It really, really hurts.

Don't tell me Bush sucks. He sucks right now, with 20% approval.
In the beginning, he had 80% approval.
He's been waging war since this beginning.

And don't tell me this is a Bush-only thing, either.
US has always had a habit of doing stuff they really can't.
No, seriously, guys. You cannot f*cking police the world just because you're the 'Good Guys' or something.

Since Manifest Destiny. Since someone said "hey, look, we've formed this country that's so COOL so it's obvious that we, as the coolest country, get to decide how everyone else should act! By the way, we defend democracy an stuff. We rock, don't we?"

Democracy?
For Chrissake, the US electoral system just plainly sucks.
Want numbers? Alright. In Florida, 2000:
Bush - popular votes: 2.912.790 ; delegates: 25.
Al Gore - popular votes: 2.912.253 ; delegates: 0.
Got that?
It doesn't matter how fake those 500 votes are or are not.
It matters that 500 votes equal 25 f*cking delegates.

It's not Bush's fault, it can happen anytime in any election.
Yeeeah, who's equal now?
Anyway, since Manifest Destiny.
Since Monroe Doctrine.
Big Stick Doctrine.
Truman Doctrine.
All of those. And more. And I hope you know what those were. And are.

Don't think I have anything specifically against you.

You know, don't blame the politicians.
They can only do stuff when the people approve. There's no war without popular support.
Don't be the popular support.
Don't be the "average American".
Please.
Think about what your country tells you.
Research stuff.

And for Chrissakes don't go around yelling "the System is Evil I'm gonna join a counter-culture".
Those are the worst people. Period.

Instead, know what your country does and when it lies and why it lies.
Know that you have no rights over the world.
Know that war is NEVER fair.

And this was all because, you know, Venezuela has a crazy president, and Bolivia has a crazy president, and we in Brasil have announced the find of a lot of petroleum of the finest quality in our territory.
And, coincidence "or not", the US have just reactivated its Fourth Fleet.
Which hasn't been active since f*cking 1950.
Yeah, 4th Fleet. Research it. Know what it is. Wikipedia, newspaper, whatever.

Just don't be alienated.

Don't be the f*cking popular support. Don't be f*cking stupid. Don't let the people near you even say "Yeah, Afghanistan, the Muslim bastards deserved it."

That's all I ask of you.

Good sense.

And, because it's relevant:

I feel the rant and I'm way ahead of you:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

However, what you're saying is fighting against a tag-team of government and media together in ways never before seen. It will take a long time to get through to people about what's going on.

The president is not the only one to blame. It's the near-entirety of Congress and the Supreme Court, as well. Because the government isn't afraid of the people anymore. How many Americans have guns? How many are willing to march and get sh*t done?

The only way government works for the people is when the people put on dom gear and let them have it.

Mercenaries 2 taught me this.

And yet you're telling us how to think. Ironic, isn't it?

My feelings exactly. If "The world is not divided between Us and Them" as the Gnasher has claimed, then I assume he is talking to himself as well. Otherwise he is being hypocritical.

[spoiler]Paraphrasing the great Bruce Lee:[/spoiler]
This rant is dedicated to the Free, Creative Person.
Take what it useful and develop from there.



Yes, otherwise I'd be hypocritical.

Even though this is aimed specifically at people who live in the US.
Trust me, you don't want to see me rant at my country.
It'd be around 5 times longer than this.

Y'all know exactly what he means. Stop giving him a hard time about it.

I want people to stop being sheeple and look at what's happening around themselves for a very simple and selfish reason: what they are doing is affecting me adversely.

It's not just about giving him a hard time. I do agree with both of you that people need to stop being sheeple, and look around.

But it is very important for people to not just rant, but try to understand others. If someone is ranting based on emotion IN UNION with logical thought, then at least they realize, themselves being an example, that people behave based on a combination of both.

So he can criticize their logic and try to persuade them for being illogical, but how can he criticize their emotion toward others (fear, pride, anger, etc.) if he too is acting emotionally.

He is criticizing the logic and emotion of others. His logical arguments are persuasive and consistent. His criticism that people shouldn't act based on emotion is self-inconsistent.

In other words, he understands exactly why people act based on their emotions because he is doing so as well by ranting instead of only presenting an unemotional logical argument.

He seems to fail to understand that many people WITHOUT LOGICALLY CHOOSING to be this way, are naturally more emotional than rational.

And rather than accept that as the human condition he rants AS THOUGH these people choose to be this way so that he can blame them from an US versus Them point of view.

American liberty and freedom are based solely on the fact that back in the 1750' Americans didn't want to pay a bill for a war that was fought by their government against an enemy whose land those same Americans were encroaching upon.

...

Canada is looking more and more appealing everyday...>_>

Unfortunately, there is an annoying tendency for one to forget to separate American corporations from Americans as a whole. It is also sad that these same corporations for get to realize this native misconception and be better emissaries for the American people as a whole.

There is a famous saying about democracy; "Democracy is ideologically the worst form of government ever conceived--But it beats the alternatives."
When you complain that our system is convoluted, remember that The United States are just that. States that are United. Each state is responsible for making its own laws and decisions separately of the main government. (The irony here is that this means the the USA was really formed on a very communist idea. Namely, that individuals band together for the common good of all.)
When we hold an election on the federal level, we have to coordinate the voting efforts of 50 SEPARATE States, who each have there own voting laws, codes and in some cases traditions. The representative democracy that we have today evolved out of necessity because coordinating 200,000,000 voting age citizens is quite simply unfeasible. However, coordinating the efforts of several hundred or thousand representatives is a bit more doable. The down side is that this only works in a ideal world, a world where people don't play dirty, and also enter government for their own ends instead of the betterment of their constituency.

My point in all this is that it is the government that you should dislike, not the American people. Sure we may be fat and "lazy" and uninformed, but remember that number you your self posted. The voting numbers in Florida in 2000. Sure, 500 more people voted for Bush, but 2,912,253 still thought he was not sufficient for the job. and in 2000 and again in 2004, this was proved again. It may be hard for you to realize but according to those numbers, half of America HATES the man.

Hate is a strong word though. Go ahead blame Bush, but that's like blaming Lambchop for being Jewish. Bush is a first class moron. Therefore, it is my belief that Bush is to stupid to be evil. It's his cabinet that are the evil ones.

The problem is not that Americans are evil. We aren't really. We live and work and have dreams just like any other peoples on this planet. And we are trying our best to make our way in the world. As individuals, and as communities

The problem is that those that have the power, are using that power for their own ends.
A it's best it is merely corruption, at it's worst , it is pure hedonism

wow, where has this forum gone when Staffmaster makes the most sense.



really? I thought it was mostly about stamp tax and voting rights, or so i read more like.

I realize that.

When I meant the world is really one huge place, that's what I meant. People are people regardless of where they are.

I guess the biggest point I was trying to make is this: "People who live in the US, please don't be alienated and have good sense."
It's pretty much a plea.

I agree that especially before 9/11 most mainstream Americans never paid attention to current international events. I also believe that many Americans do not have a solid background in international history.

But what seems ironic, if not annoying, if not blatantly hypocritical, is that many if not most people from other countries that are apparently more 'enlightened' about things happening outside of their own country show a real lack of knowledge as to why Americans are the way the are and show a real lack of maturity in helping them embrace the international world instead of slamming them.

As Staffy has alluded to, these 'enlightened' internationals also tend to completely ignore those Americans who do understand the international condition or the lack of real power by an individual within the government structure in place.

Exactly.

What is especially annoying is that most if not all of these peoples also have screwy governments. I just wish that some would also take the time to consider that the American people have to LIVE with this circus act we call this administration. (The whole government is a complete OTHER ball of wax, BTW.)

It's like admonishing a man for beating his wife and then going off on the woman for and because she is married to him. We're the ones who have no state provided heath care, poorly funded schools, and a failing economy.

At your base, of course, you are right. Not enough Americans DO think outside their own petty little lives, and surely not enough for their voices to be heard at present

Sumi, check your history: while the things you mentioned are true, the reasons for the taxes were because the colonists refused to pay for the French and Indian war, which was fought by the French (and their native American allies) against the English, in response to colonial raids of french run trading posts along the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. Those taxes were levied quickly, and with little or no colonial representation, (which made them wrong) but they were in direct response to the colonial governments' refusal to do so themselves, but toward the same ends.
This is why I mentioned it in this context. In essence, what is going on here is that we have a government fighting a VERY costly war (England almost went bankrupt defending its colonies in the 1750's) against an "unending" enemy (France and England really did fight a war-off and on- for almost 80 YEARS). Now where is that going on RIGHT NOW, HMMMMM!?!?

What I was alluding to in the part you quoted was the result of those actions; namely that "because of a costly war, taxes were levied" and "that because of those taxes, the people revolted."

Sadly, my last point is that history tends to repeat itself.

Yeah I don't really know I just read that somewhere basically.. I was never particularily sure what Stamp Tax actually was. What you are saying makes sense though - I'm always a bit wary of american history is the thing since a lot of it is made up.

But anyway, what i also read is that the people in britain were also being charged the same taxes and very few of them got any representation either.. so basically the colonies to treated same as the rest of the country or something which is like.. why everyone thought they were a bit whiney?

that idea of history that ive... er.. 'gleaned' from things in my little interpretation of whatever the words might have meant.. is sort of how the whole thing still comes off.. kind of.. fighting for freedom from oppression which there wasn't Really that much of in the first place.. but it's a fair enough objective but gets a bit 'eek' when paired with the won't take none of that, self aggrandising, deserving .. sort of... attitude thats really really .. prominent not just in the govn't or the national image but comes from the culture which is down to individual people, right? cus cultural attitude is like.. part of the nurture part of growing up kind of thing?

but how i feel about it - which i think is quite typical of the canadian culture, is 'ah.. dont' want to touch that.. slowly back away and mind my own little business' .. not much better - lol eh?

but anyway - you have a good point. ^_^ they do say history tends to repeat itself. i was mostly just making a joke with the whole stamp tax thing.

*sigh* I guess I'm either too naive or too simplistic for my own good.

Of course there are Americans who're not alienated or stupid, but of course there are the ones who are. And these you see every day in TV, internet, writing books, making speeches.
I'm just saying, if you're one of those stupid Americans, please don't be.
If you aren't, just tell me "I'm not" and that's okay. And to those people, I say "please try to make the people near you not stupid." And if you say "I do", then that's okay.

You don't have to call me hypocrite. I hate that.

Don't think I have prejudice against Americans.
It's just that the stupid American has a lot more influence on the world than the stupid Ethiopian or the stupid Argentinian.

And yes, I'm defending myself because I feel like I've been miss-interpreted.

Quoted for truth.

This is why Americans shoulder a great responsibility to not be a stump.

And a huge correction for Staffy:

We do not live in a democracy nor have we ever: it's always been a republic. Big difference. The founders knew a lot better than that. Democracy = Mob Rule.

I was using "Democracy" in the same sense as one uses the term "kleenex" to refer to facial tissues. But you are right, it is a Republic.

But you know, lets expand on that thought for a moment; A Republic is rule by the few in allowance by the many. England (for example), while at its core is a Monarchy, is run as a Republic. This points out the main difference between the two (Democracy vs. Republic) and that is that in a Democracy, every one has an equal voice in running the society, while a Republic there is a definite power hierarchy, and one person ultimately has the final say. Unfortunately, I think there in lays the fatal flaw with a Republic; one person with too much power.

Democracy, however, is not mob rule. As was seen in Athens and Sparta, the two archetypes for democracy, there is always a governing body to balance the "will of the people." (or at least, there SHOULD be.) This governing body needs to be in place to enact rules and regulations on the populous and to give law enforcement the authoritative backup it needs to be respected and effective. A true "mob rule" society is called an Anarchy, and lacks any regulatory structure what so ever, and is an unsustainable form of government. Hell, you really can't even call it a "government" (as such) because there would be no one really doing the governing.

What is this? U.S. History class?

the U.S. has no history. go home.