No living thing that "can feel pain" should be tortured. NONE!
For no reason. No ANIMAL, NO PERSON. And it is to my knowing that
people are part of the animal kingdom. We do everything thing that normal animals do. Where just smarter. Well sometimes...

And until someone can prove that
plants feel pain. I'm going to say it does not make a difference.

If you want something dead "SHOOT FOR THE HEAD"

True. But if someones head gets chopped off, theres a possibility they still live in 30 seconds. Do they fell pain in those 30 seconds? I'm not sure. The only way to kill a human is to attack the Brain. Also if another species was the dominate race, wouldn't they torture us like we do to animals?

Yup. And we'd still say it was wrong.

Hmmmm... 30 seconds?

Or days and maybe even weeks...

Actuallay, biologically speaking, the death of the brain does NOT imply the death of the body (I'm not talking about coma). If someone blows your brain up, your heart will still beat, and other mechanical body functions will keep on functioning for a few minutes.

Not that you can, y'know, feel anything then, but just wanted to add it ^^

The 30 sec. your talking about is quick. I believe that your body is in such a state of shock I think it's painless. Your still in wounder whats going on, that the pain thats there is being masked.

And to answer the last question. They might.. it would be up to them.

30 seconds of non stop torture can feel like forever.

I don't think you are seeing the point, buddy.

You can either:

A) suffer for 30 seconds, even if it feels like forever

or

B) Suffer for days on end.. which I'm pretty sure will suck just a tad bit more, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah both of those options result in a loooot of pain

you just tried to make a joke about animal suffering, didn't you...

what remarkably poor timing.

Wasn't a joke. Its just both of those options result in pain.

Yep. Everything has it down sides. Its about picking the best one.

Well, yeah... but which is more humane?

Oh, and I believe that KK and Gnasher are correct when saying that the shock will probably laps over the pain... at least untill you are dead anyway.

Besides, that's not really the point here. The point is the mistreating of animals. Like shoving multiple animals in exremely small cages and kicking them off of trucks at a high enough distance to do some very serious damage. Which is unneccessary.... where as a euthanization would mean a quick death and no further abuse on the body.

Hell, if they were dead they probably wouldn't even treat them as badly as they do alive... just because.

Anyway this topic is heating waaay too much. So i'm just gonna post one final comment before i leave this thread for good.

In about a week or 2 you'll probably forget about animal cruelty. But when you're reminded of it, the only answer you might have to say would be "Yeah its not good."

Complaining can be good for a while. But sometimes complaining has to lead to action. And if you can't do the action than there is no reason for you to complain. Try to protest or something. Put up signs or pictures or whatever. As long as you do some kind of action to show that you don't just complain. It happens everyday, it can't be stopped. Its human nature.

Human= Dominant

Weaker Animal= Weak

It is said that the Dominate is allowed to do anything to the weak since they are more powerful and are allowed to rule over the weak. I just repeated myself there

Don't get me wrong, i don't like torture or torture to anyone else.

Since my post will lead to another objection and making me vulnerable to someone saying, "No you're wrong." Thats why i am posting this:

"Meh, its Nature". I know that was horrible.

There, i made completely no sense.

...

Actually, you are correct for the most part. This debate isn't near as heavy as others we've had... say, maybe the women threads?

But what it boils down to is that we are all on the same page. And while we can't do anything directly as activists, it's still worth getting the idea out in the open. At least for those who don't fear a debate (feelings hurt/whatever).

My say in the matter is that simple euthanization before shipment would stop a good majority of this. That would end the suffering... and the assholes can sit and batter the bodies all they want. Personally, if I was running the business, I wouldn't want them do treat my furs that way... In saying that if they didn't care for the well-being of the animal, you'd think they'd at least care for the product that's being tossed around.

I mean, Dell doesn't kick their laptops off the assembly line, do they?

Duelpro, while you are out trying to stop the trade completely, I'm thinking of a way to keep the business going (however much I like it or not) but without the animals having to go through unnessecary pain for an exteded period of time.

... or something along those lines...

And btw... I think that lex pic would make a good emoticon.

This topic was not really in mind of a "complaint" but more of a shocking reminder of how this world really is. I think if there is something that can be done to stop it. It would have to come from many people.
Much shame in those who just shrug at the idea of abuse. Much shame.
One day maybe us humans will get things right. I hope.

Thousands more animals are beaten and inhumanely butchered then humans every day. If when everything screamed as it died, The humans would be a murmmer covered by the shrieks of animals being savegely disemboweled. If anyone has seen the movie "Chew on this" you know what I mean. Pigs hanging from their angles as they watch their own blood spurt out of their guts to puddle on the cement until the fall in it, Chickens clamped in conveyerbelts as they are dragged through boiling water still alive, and they are alive just to save the money for the bullet.
50% of the water in America goes to farming those animals, the grain used could feed almost all of the starving children in the world, and all so stupid ner-du-wels can have their Big Whoppers and KFC chicken.

quote="Kratos Aurion"]Well, I'm going to sound like a bastard for saying this, but why do we care so much about animal cruelty? Animals get beat and slaughtered and we get pissed off. We see a man in Iraq get his head cut clean off his shoulders and we say stupid shiz like, "Oh, well, he shouldn't have been greedy," or, "Well, he probably deserved it." You feel the pain of animals and try to protect them, but you don't give a damn about your fellow human? it's kind of a sick and twisted world we live in. We see people get beat on TV by police or other thugs and we think it's no big deal. We see people kick animals and its just "oh so wrong." Tell me, how is this any different from human torture?[/quote]

Who are these people that are so simpathetic to non-human animals and not humans? Do you have specific examples of individuals or are you upset with an IMAGINARY TYPE of individual?

Sorry, didn't realize that was an old post, but I leave it nontheless.

The more you would like to reduce non-human animal suffering, the more you should consider vegetarianism and especially veganism, not just for food, but clothing, products, etc.

It will not remove the problem, but it will ADD to the reduction of non-human animal suffering.

I wounder if they can reuse the same bullets? Take the bullet out, wash it off.

Um... no. lolz

The bullet is in a jacket, that has a primer. The gun's hammer ignites the primer and the bullet is ejected out of the jacket and down the barrel of the gun.

Unless you are talking about old OLD muskets... then you wouldn't have to buy bullets. But you'd have to buy gunpowder. Also, the time it takes to find a bullet wouldn't be very practical either.