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PostPosted: October 24th, 2007, 7:27 pm 
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I don't care if the Moveon.org news buzz has tainted them for some of you, I don't care if the wording is too 'liberal' for some of you - the article merely serves to illustrate one of the more amusing things about American people.

MoveOn.org wrote:
To be honest, I don't even like to think about the possibility of war with Iran. But here's the unfortunate truth—plans for an aerial attack have been drawn up.1 There's nothing stopping Bush from launching that attack any day. And right now the progressive movement's main strategy for preventing it is simply to hope that it doesn't happen.

To paraphrase my ninth-grade sex-ed teacher, "Hope is not a method." We need to do something. There are increasing indications that war with Iran may be imminent. And experts agree it would be a catastrophe.

So today we're proposing a major campaign to expose the danger of a new war with Iran (see below for details). It'll cost about $200,000, and if we can raise the money, we'll start today. Can you chip in $250?

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/irandonat ... GAcrcx&t=2

War would be a disaster. Military officials who've gamed-out a war with Iran say it's a very, very bad idea. "Iran would hit back against US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and activate terrorist allies in the Middle East, further destabilizing a region already struggling with two major wars."2 US troops in the region, Israelis and American civilians abroad and at home would all be at risk.

And it's a real possibility. For months, there's been a stream of leaks and revelations by former Bush administration officials that paint a scary picture: Vice President Cheney and the neocons are quietly maneuvering us toward war with Iran—just as they did with Iraq.3,4

Now, the New York Times reports that Freedom's Watch, a $200 million propaganda machine headed by former White House insiders, has started to press for an attack.5,6 And this past week, Bush and Cheney upped the ante with aggressive statements, even invoking the specter of "World War III."7

Observers across the political spectrum, from Senator John McCain to former Middle East envoy Dennis Ross, say the threat is closer than it appears.8,9 And it's never a good idea to underestimate this president's capacity for recklessness.

We can't run the risk that they're crazy enough to do it. That's why it's so important that we make sure policymakers understand the cost of war, and we pressure Congress not to roll over on Iran. If we can raise the money today, here's what we'll do:

A number of top retired generals and military experts are willing to say publicly that attacking Iran would be a strategic disaster. We'll put them on tour to speak to political leaders, editorial boards and big audiences.
We'll run ads challenging the Bush administration and key presidential candidates—and remind people that the last time we heard many of these phony arguments was in the lead-up to war with Iraq.
We'll commission polling to show wavering politicians that if they stand up against war with Iran, the public will stand with them.
We'll run a major grassroots campaign urging Congress to confront the administration on Iran.
None of us know how likely a strike against Iran really is. But I'm going to do more than just hope it doesn't happen. The signs and signals have become too glaring. We have to act.

Please join in launching this campaign:

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/irandonat ... GAcrcx&t=3

There have been a few leaders and organizations within the progressive movement who've consistently sounded the alarm on this issue. Now it's time for the rest of us to join them.

Thanks for all you do,

–Ilyse, Justin, Marika, Matt, and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team
Wednesday, October 24th, 2007

Sources:

1. "Shifting Targets: The Administration's plan for Iran," The New Yorker, October 8, 2007.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3097&id=11488 ... GAcrcx&t=4

2. "Cheney Targets Iran," Rolling Stone, October 18, 2007.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3098&id=11488 ... GAcrcx&t=5

3. "The Redirection," The New Yorker, March 5, 2007.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3099&id=11488 ... GAcrcx&t=6

4. "The Secret History of the Impending War with Iran That the White House Doesn't Want You to Know," Esquire, October 18, 2007.
http://www.esquire.com/features/iranbriefing1107

5. "Big Coffers and a Rising Voice Lift a New Conservative Group," New York Times, September 30, 2007.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3100&id=11488 ... GAcrcx&t=7

6. "Freedom's Watch targeting Iran," Media Transparency, October 17, 2007.
http://www.mediatransparency.com/story.php?storyID=216

7. "Nuclear-Armed Iran Risks World War, Bush Says," New York Times, October 18, 2007.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/18/washi ... prexy.html

8. "Cheney Targets Iran," Rolling Stone, October 18, 2007.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3098&id=11488 ... GAcrcx&t=8

9. Video clip of Sen. McCain in Republican Debate. October 9, 2007.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE_DcDsp8hg

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Last edited by N.L.Y. on October 24th, 2007, 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: October 24th, 2007, 7:33 pm 
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It's a damn-sad situation. And in addition to MoveOn, there is a chance to change this!

Google Ron Paul.
Give this man the chance to change America back to freedom and peace!

Don't vote party lines!

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PostPosted: October 24th, 2007, 7:36 pm 
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World War 3!?

That would be REALLY bad.


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PostPosted: October 24th, 2007, 8:12 pm 
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"As long as there is man, there will be war." :cry

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PostPosted: October 25th, 2007, 4:35 pm 
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"Fighting for peace is like f*cking for virginity..."

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PostPosted: October 25th, 2007, 5:16 pm 
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I hate that stupid saying.... Cause no one has the stomach to say it when your land and your daughters are raped.

But yes...war with Iran would be a bad idea. Gl preventing it.

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PostPosted: October 25th, 2007, 7:05 pm 
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Kajakfaucon wrote:
I hate that stupid saying.... Cause no one has the stomach to say it when your land and your daughters are raped.

But yes...war with Iran would be a bad idea. Gl preventing it.


I think that the phrase is saying that if 'peace' is your goal, you go through diplomatic means or you as a pacifist have the resolve to let what happens, happens.

But if you have your land stolen and have your daughters raped, your justifiable fight or warfare is more for control, or self preservation, but not really 'peace' because 'peace' inherently requires you to not fight. Although admittedly, there is certainly a definiton where that word is simply meant to mean no fighting occurs (as in a time period) so you may have a period of war that leads to a period of peace.

My whole point is that regardless of how Lantis is using that phrase, some people do try to usurp the postitive power of the word 'peace' when they more properly should admit that it is for self control and preservation which is justifiable (but not get to also call themselves pacifists when real pacifists (respectable or not) never fight).

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PostPosted: October 27th, 2007, 1:08 pm 
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Anonymous Bo wrote:
your justifiable fight or warfare is more for control


completely right.

self-preservation and whatnot aside, is it justifiable to fight for control?


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PostPosted: October 29th, 2007, 8:55 am 
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Regal wrote:
Anonymous Bo wrote:
your justifiable fight or warfare is more for control


completely right.

self-preservation and whatnot aside, is it justifiable to fight for control?


not to be confused with 'peace' necessarily.

EDIT: I missread. I thought you were declaring not asking. I am open to the idea that it is not necessarily justifiable. My point was not to question that aspect of Kajakfaucon's comment and more to address that EVEN IF it justifiable to fight for control, it is not neccessarily 'peace'.

Now what is justifiable depends on who you talk to.

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