HOLY CRAP. An actual discussion about the game in the objective sense! These things are rare as whale crap, but guess what you found one!


Any way, I was just thinking about what it was that I found appealing about the IDEA of RPG maker. You know, like what about it "clicks" on a deep psychological level with all of us. (This of course leads to the obvious question of what YOU find appealing about it, but then, hence this topic. )

It occurred to me that it is because we are tired of the constraints of the world provided for us, but more then that, because we all crave control. This may well be overlaying theme in each of our lives; Chaos, and uncertainty. Even in the escape of "normal" games we are presented with those themes. Ironically, this is what draws us to those games. If you think about a sports game like Madden NFL, or FIFA Soccer, there is no uncertainty beyond the question of Win vs. Loss. And there is no chaos; There are set rules, and the game is basically the same each time. So the question is, why would we not be drawn to those games. I think the answer is we want to gain victory over those forces.

With RPG's there is Chaos and Uncertainty. The Chaos is the evil in the (game)world, or that which tears it asunder. The Uncertainty is the unknown quality about the world you are about to enter (We get this uncertainty from Zelda and Dragon Quest games because the game world is constantly changing and evolving). The satisfaction we seek stems from the defeat of these forces, by exploration and restoring order. The comfort we gain, is from the knowledge that the path for achieving this goal is relatively well defined. Continue moving forward through the story, and through our direct interaction and both will change. The "fun" (our interest) comes from the fact that it can some times be a puzzle just to do that, and solving puzzles makes people get that Endorphin and Dopamine laden "Aha! Moment." Further, that is why getting "stuck" in an RPG is so annoying. The Forces of Chaos have won if it is a particularly tough boss, or the Forces of Uncertainty have won if your problem is topographical, or you lack a specific item.

Now that we have THAT down, we can talk about RM.
Where I think we like RM is the fact that it not just offers us the chance to gain superiority over those forces, but to CONTROL THEM. A game that allows US to remove the foil of uncertainty by creating our own world and be the progenitors of chaos, not just the usurpers of it. In addition it starts as nothing and becomes something, but making that happen correctly can be challenging, and when it does, you get the "Aha! Moment".

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So all this thinking made me wonder if the real reason we like RM is because, at heart, we are all insecure control freaks who seek validation through an artificial creation process to balance the unwieldy chaos and disorder in our own lives.

Surely, this cannot be!

There has to be a better reason! Perhaps it is because our motives for arriving at RM are more altruistic, or perhaps they become more altruistic once one learns of the RM community. The desire to share the creation to share the feelings you expressed in the form of a game. It is the satisfaction of knowing that you are fulfilling both sides of the coin; you are satisfying both the urge to control, and to overcome.

Ultimately it is a blending of the two. What makes this game appealing is that it provides us the novel idea that we can defeat chaos buy controlling it.

But you know, I got to wondering what you guys thought so...Let's hear it!

I can pretty much agree with that. I found the "aha moment" thing pretty much spot on. Specially when coding a hard puzzle or something that requires a great number of switches to be possilbe. You'll roll the concept over in you head with doubt. You think, "Man, that would be awesome if I can do it... but with the limitations it just really can't be possilbe." But when you start fleshing it out in the actual code and you then realize there's a way around it... that's when I get that "aha moment." And I've loved it every time.

Of course that was some time well after I have familiarized myself with RPG Makers inner workings. So aha aside, I think I picked up a maker simply because I genuinely love RPGs. And I thought that trying my hand at it would be a wonderful way to spend time creatively. Eventually it turned into a hobby after finished the first game I ever finished. I guess it's just what attacts us. I liked watching skateboarding... I eventually started skating myself. So all of us here who play RPG, probably have the desire to make their own. Note that I'm not saying that they have DRIVE to do it... because lets face it, making an RPG is absolutely time consuming and not everyone can do it. But that really doesn't matter here in this topic.

One of the best things about RPG Makers is that usually you don't know what you are getting yourself into. It turns into a "cool idea" to something much greater. Specially when you realized you've dumped hundreds of hours into it.

I'm trying to analyze why we like it. What is it in our psyche that makes one find a game like this compelling.

We'll I really want to say, "because we do." But that really doesn't constitute a real answer. But honestly, I don't know if we'll be able to really find a better answer.

I'll give you an unromantic answer. Because there aren't any other games like it out there. Imagine if their was a whole game making genre with 100's of games out there but only one Fifa or Madden game. Which game do you think would be next on your list. I'd be tired of saying "I don't want to play anymore games where I have to program them first, I want to play a game that someone else created and it would be cool if all the attention could be devoted to making a single game look good and function instead of the same old tool set and character models over and over."

But alas there is nothing out there like RPGMs so that is part of the appeal. The satisifaction of the "a-ha" moment occurs in any number of domains from solving a chemistry problem for homework to figuring out the best way to coordinate picking everyone up for a party. It is the joy of solving a problem and being the one to have been the solver.

So my opinion is that everyone wants to make their own game because everyone has an imagination (we've all said wouldn't it be cool to see a game where...) but not everyone would rather spend their time making games than playing others. An analogy is music. I was surprised that some fantastic performers had no interest in composition. I was like, "are you kidding me?" To them they just loved the music someone else composed and their creative spirit was in the performance. When it comes to shooters I'd rather be good at Halo than be good at creating shooters but when it comes to RPGs I'd rather be good at creating RPGS than being good at playing them. And lastly when it comes to survival horror I want to be the master of both. That is actually related to why I got RPGM in the first place.

I could go on at length. I'll probably reply later. Hope this helps for now.

Because I like creating stuff. I was a fan if wrestling games because I could create my wrestler, and try to make them look as unique as possibles. I like MMORPGs because it allows you to create your own characters.
I also love making stories. I drew a lot of comic featuring a bunch of super heroes and villains when I was a kid. I wrote "detective" stories too. They were all terrible, but they allowed me to do what I love: Give life to a story.
I even used to play with my brother and sister pretending to be our favorite characters, and made the craziest crossovers while acting them. And we used to make stories with our own toys on the spot, while playing.

I couldn't make a story on the spot with my MMORPG characters while playing, but I could (and did) think of background stories, giving them reasons to be where they were.

My passion for making stories, combined with my passion for video games (specially RPGs) made it only natural to get RM when I heard about it.

Saw at GameStop.

Bought it.

I saw an article in OPM back in 8th grade. I spent the entire year before playing FF7 and all of that year playing SO2. I had quite the rpg boner at the time. Still do. I should probably see a doctor.

What brought me into it? It was way back when Square-Enix were two separate entities. I hung out at Enix's message boards. A discussion came up about RPG Maker. Can't remember what was mentioned, but it intrigued me. Previously I had taken a programming class in high school, basically a C++ crash course. I wound up wanting to create my RPG, and at the time I was a real big fan of dragons, and daydreamed up stories about how dragons were not evil monsters. And I had become quite the RPG fan (I was hanging out at Enix, after all). It seemed only natural to take my ideas into video game form. This was the beginning of Slayers' Reign. I had planned at first to create SR with what I knew of C++, but the idea sort of fell through.

Now, how did I decide to try RPG Maker? I'm not sure, but what probably happened is that topic at Enix got me curious enough to give it a shot. And when I saw how capable the tool was, I knew that's what I was going to use.

So why do I like it now? Because it's fun. The satisfaction of finishing a cutscene or minigame feels pretty good. Even better if it uses fancy tricks most people wouldn't try, or if it gets around technical limits. And also, I like showing off. "Hey, look at what I made." Too bad I've had nothing I could show for the past long while.

It's interesting that Draygone mentioned programming because I used to dabble in programming the Commodore 64 to make text graphic adventure games so this has always been something I've been interested in BUT when I saw the advertisements for RPGM (it was still on sale at EB but the PS2 was already out for awhile) I decided that I wanted to try to make some kind of simple survival horror game with it. I knew not to expect much from the graphics but I didn't actually think there would be programming involved. I guess I expected it to be more of event layouts of preprogrammed stuff (in other words I wasn't really thinking about it). It was actually my first experience with turn based RPGS so when I saw that damage was represented via...numbers (!) I was like WTF where are the graphics of my weapon and explosions on the screen! But when I became enough of a fan just imagining what I could do with the game that it sustained my interest into RPGM2 which (because of how it is) totally got me back into programming so that by the time that RPGM3 came out (my favorite) in many ways it is all about programming, although now I also like to use it as an artistic palette visually and musically and for philosophical based stories.

So yes, it is the love of programming that separates those who make RPGM games from those who have a story in mind that they want to see get made but don't have the (programming) patience or interest to do it. Everyone has a story they want to see made, not everyone has an interest in programming.

EDIT: So to further answer the question that Staffy is asking, if RPGM were more strictly prescripted but let's say you could control everything about how the character looks, you would probably have less programmers interested in it but more visual artists interested in it, etc.

So I do think that programming is a basic aspect as to why people who USE RPGM find it enjoyable (others may buy it but never use it when they realize how much programming is involved). So your question becomes why do we love programming so much maybe?

I came to the site before I came to the game, and that was over when I lost access to it. I've never owned a video game system.

So it was pretty much an accident. I was searching google for something, and on like page 8 (I have been known to be that thorough in my searches) there was a link to one of the threads here.
I think I joined to comment on it. It was totally irrelevant to my search, but I was intrigued by it. It was Ixz's thread about what to do with his disposable camera, as I recall.
Then I looked up a mate who had RM1 and RM3 (he was always too lazy for 2), and gave 'em a shot.

I loved RPGs and talked about them with some of my friends in junior high. I saw it in a game mag and thought it would be awesome to have. I grabbed RM1 and started playing. Lost interest about 3 years later. Maybe sooner than that.

Eons ago, the game creation software I call VERGE permeated the internet. The green program generated a great upwelling of projects across the web. I uptook the mighty quest of revealing to the world the gift I call rpg design. Then, for reasons unknown, I began to recede and the diversity of projects I saw began to wither. The RPGs we know today are but a fraction of a fraction of what once existed. But a bunch of dudes totally passed this farout knowledge down through the ages. Some with this knowledge were called prophets, others were called fruitcakes.
(/thatshow)
I started fooling around with Verge, little by little. I didn't even really have a project or know how to start one then. I mainly focused on a combat system. A short time later, Verge2 would come out and dominate the community I was in. It had fewer built-in features, but also left in a lot of flexibility. So many other people had formed groups, with coders, trackers, and artists that I didn't feel my game would garner... well, anything. I left the scene for a while. I do believe I poked around here and there. Gamemaker, RPGToolkit, Byond, C... each had drawbacks that I could not overlook and all projects were eventually scrapped. Along the way, however, I had gotten adept at certain aspects of game design.

Eventually, RPG Maker would be released. What really got me fired up was the EGM contest. I had already found the agetec board and the budding pavilion. I didn't think that it would grow into the community it once was. I'm not sure I've seen anything grow like that before my eyes. I missed the deadline for the egm contest though. I was only 1/5 of the way done with my game. I searched through the boards and was again overcome by the custom art people were raving about. To me, it seemed like the only thing anyone raved about with rpgm1. A glimmer of hope, however, appeared. The announcement of rpg maker 2 was just the thing I was looking for. I had some questions answered by asci dave (I think it was a big topic back then, I also used to talk with him on aim though). The way I saw it, graphics would be downplayed and with the addition of variables, I would actually be able to code something worthwhile. This was the point where I actually researched game design, specifically rpg design, and the first project I still feel good about was born.

I was actually in college at the time. I believe I had nearly a year before rpgm2 would be released. I made ample use of the college's printer and filled folder upon folder with articles, ideas, theories, forms, and other stuff. Even now, I can look back on my project and say that I would still like to see it released. My rpg maker 1 project? I'd rather leave the community than have it released. What stopped me? I had some great ideas for the game, but many of the limits of rpgm2 hindered my vision. I felt that releasing my project on rpg maker 2 would have been like trying to sell a broken car in a bad way. The community seemed to rave on about non-rpgs once again. Few projects were released and many people seemed to be hung up on rpgm1. In the horizon was rpg maker 3 and rpg maker xp.

Suffice to say, rpg maker 3 quickly turned into a bust for me. I believe the promise was "programming capability of rpg maker 2 with the ease of use of rpg maker 1". This was not the case. In the community, it seemed to me that few people even owned rpg maker 3 and even if I could make it work, not a lot of people would even get to play my game. RPG Maker XP quickly reminded me of Verge2. So many people with custom music, custom art, and fancy things of all kinds. Worse yet, there was ruby. Small fish in the ocean again.

That brings me full circle. After a few years, I once again got interested in making a game. This time, however, I was inspired by indie games and the money they could make. Technology had finally made it to the point where releasing a game on the internet was quite easy and the community for such a thing had grown to an almost professional level. So here I am, wondering what I could possibly create that would be worth even the smallest of values to the largest of audiences. All I end up doing is thinking a bit on it.

tl;dr
One thing I did learn... even if I don't finish anything, I still enjoy thinking things through. New projects are like opening a present.

I saw a review for the first RPG Maker in Game Informer, creamed myself, and bought it immediately after it came out. The Gamestop in my area only had 1 copy left!

I'd played Lufia II and loved it, along with other Final Fantasies, so I was more than down to make my own game.

I initially started with RPGToolkit, though, since I did have an interest in this before RM1, but I couldn't do anything with it because of the coding required, as in actually coding the game.

February 2006.

I was deep into a "Star Wars Battlefront 2" addiction, and my controller that I'd been using since 2003 was starting to mess up on me. The analog sticks were getting kinda loose, and my guy would occasionally move a bit to the side on his own. I shopped at EToys for a new controller (not sure why I chose that over Amazon). Having snagged myself the desired item, I casually perused their selection of PS2 games. Since I'm buying something, might as well see if there's something else I might want as well. Saw RPG Maker 3, picked it up on a complete whim.

When it arrived, my "Battlefront 2" addiction got shelved as I played the sample game out of curiosity. Decided I could make something nifty with the tools, got to work. Spent the next six months designing a game.

Yep, you heard correctly. My being here is an absolute fluke! (Don't you feel so lucky and warm and fuzzy inside right now? "Dammit! If that random sequence of events hadn't happened, that bastard might not have ever shown his ugly face around here! Blasted controller!")

I do not like the standardized formula of RPG gaming and will to the day I die insist that none of my games are real RPGs (even though some of them are).

i saw a copy of rpg maker 1 at the local rent shop (microplay) and i rented it as i had a big interest in making my own game. i fell in love with it and found my way to the pavilion not long after.