Ladies of the Mag, may I politely admonish you to cover your ears if you have run across this thread, for (how shall I put it delicately?) I will be speaking of this matter almost strictly from a man's perspective. ... And, as you probably know, we do have our physical attractions to women.



... I've been thinking (not that thinking is anything new of course since a wise, gentle soul such as SK always has many deep things to ponder in his heart as he travels the lonely path of a swordsman of Light; ... that was just a joke, of course ^_- ) about something for a while, and, much like my brilliant mental intrusion into Aeris' supposed innocence over her mini-skirted counterpart from a month or two ago, I feel I must convert my inner thoughts into the tangible form that we all know as a "thread".

There are a number of women from gaming out there beknownst to us all for their large breasts and uncanny ability to kick the butt of just about anything that creeps about in the darkest shadows of the world (in a number of physically impossible ways, might I add; just watch Claire's Matrix-style gunfighting and ghostlike maneuvering about a very narrow hallway in order to avoid bullets from at least three different assault rifles in the introduction sequence to Code:Veronica, and you'll understand perfectly what I mean). Tributes to these girls are plastered all across the G4 channel and youtube.com, ... probably still even in every issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly, just like in the younger days when I was an avid reader of game magazines. Even casual gamers know at least a few of them; Samus, Lara Croft (personally, I can't stand her), the girl from Metal Gear Solid 3 who can never stay fully-dressed, the Bloodrayne vampire chick, just about any woman in the fighting game genre (most notably from the Dead or Alive series, for obvious reasons), and there are probably even a few from the RPG world that are well-known.

... But may I suggest that we men turn our sometimes horribly sex-driven attentions away from the constantly mobile breasts, flashy smiles, and ability to wield dual pistols against giant robots for just one moment, long enough to examine the women in gaming who probably do not cross the average male's mind very much, probably because they may not have the perfect body or the sexy come-hither look, but, by nature, are generally a lot more realistic in my opinion and are still as cute and feminine as any other girl. So, do allow Sarah's Knight the few moments to examine a few such girls who can occupy his computer's hard drive and TV screen as long as they may like ^_^ ->

Rena Lanford - Admittedly, the heroine of Star Ocean 2 probably doesn't have much of the afore-mentioned realism that I usually like in nonexistent girls. After all, who could possibly be that cheerful or have her head in the clouds that much, wear such a ridiculously cute outfit and blush at the slightest hint of flattery one moment - and yet declare adamantly that she shall slay a wicked sorcerer with her bare hands for the fate of the entire galaxy (while wearing that same ridiculously cute outfit; "Ohhhh! How fierce and threatening you appear with your sixteen-year-old lolicon face and red, buttons-at-the-lower-arms half-cape, as you wriggle your abnormally pointed ears at me in anger, Rena!").

... Wait, wasn't I trying to think of positive attributes concerning Rena? ... Sorry. I'll get back on track, now. Anyway, she is as cute as ever, and it is easy enough to tell that Rena is a girl because she is positively in love animals and flowers, ... and yet, how often would she be present in a male gamer's fantasies? Not much, I would think, but that's almost precisely why I mention Rena in this thread.

.... Now, me? I would much rather be walking on the lamplit streets of Uptown during a starry night linking arms with a fully-dressed Rena than, quite frankly, be in bed with Lara Croft or Kasumi. She might even have a rather unfathomable voice matched only by her companion Opera's "I'm getting hurt by the enemy" screams, but at least it's a feminine voice, if off-key, ... and besides, I am Sarah's Knight, and Rena is gifted with the magical powers of healing; why wouldn't I like her instantly?

.... And that's that. The kind of girl you would want to take home to meet your mother; that's Rena.
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Agrias Oaks - ... Now, then. This probably raises an eyebrow or two. So, why would anyone wish Agrias were a real woman? Characters in Final Fantasy Tactics do not even have noses on their faces, right? Well, so what? The style of graphics in FFT may not allow one to get even a relative impression of what Agrias's body looks like, but one can certainly see the beauty of the woman's mannerisms and personality, at least, for as long as she remains in your party as a guest character who must contribute her own lines of dialog to the story without it failing to make sense. As any Final Fantasy player knows, Agrias's profession in the story is that of what is called a "Holy Knight", and clearly her heart matches that look. She never fails to show genuine care for those around her, especially the hapless princess that out of sheer mercy I am sure Agrias dedicated her entire life to protecting and nurturing. She displayed a sense of compassion for even her enemies at one point; there's just not a single hint of bloodlust to be found in the girl at all. I think Agrias suits the definition of a true knight very well (she, and, of course, Sturm Brightblade are naturally the two people that a man such as SK looks up the most ^_^ ); if I may sound like a total gaming nerd for a moment, Agrias should be much admired for her nobility and bravery. In any event, the only unrealistic thing about her is that she is able to make weird little ice crystals appear out of seemingly nowhere all around an opponent with just a flourish of her sword from several yards away, but that's to be expected in an RPG; a female party member has to be able to fight, doesn't she? Besides, I believe that someone would be able to manipulate nature with a magical sword long before I believe that a young girl can single-handedly take down a steel mechanic monstrosity with a handgun while managing to dodge every attack from its delightful assortment of explosive weapons. And on top of that, who doesn't like Agrias's hair? Something about a girl's long hair being braided in the back, I suppose.

.... And I absolutely hate Gafgarion! Curse that vile scum!
_______

Rebecca Chambers - I am much more drawn to Rebecca than any of the other heroines of the RE series, mostly because she wasn't able to face off against hordes of monsters of all kinds for days on end like RE3's Jill (the bimbo version of her), Claire (with her truly uncanny skills of spontaneous regeneration after having a ax planted squarely in her backside by a creature who possesses twenty times her muscle capacity), or Ada for that matter (nobody can display outrageously inhuman fighting capabilities like a central character from Resident Evil 4 - both hero and villain alike). For instance, what happened when you as Chris run up to the library upon hearing Rebecca's screams and find her in the same room as a bloodthirsty, takes-fifteen-Magnum-slugs-to-the-
face-without-brutal-death-by-brain-splattering Hunter? Was she bravely facing off with the reptilian menace like it was just another day in the life of Becky "Screaming Little Girl" Chambers? ... Not at all. In fact, she was doing what any perfectly average adolescent girl with only a handgun and no known marksmanship talents would be doing; cowering against the wall hiding her eyes from impending death and crying out for help in a series of ear-splitting, untranslatable yelps.

Now, you may be wondering: SK, what's so great about a damsel in distress who can't do anything for herself, doing nothing but taking womankind down a notch below man in society by giving that stereotypical image of weakness and dependency? Well, I certainly do not mind a girl being the Princess-who-must-be-rescued-from-the-big-bad-monster
type, especially if she can show signs of strength elsewhere. After all, if you were to be walking home on a darkened street at night, and spotted a lone girl being harassed and picked on by thugs, would you just pass on by and not come to her rescue? Thinking to yourself, Oh, well, she should be able to fight for herself; she must be just another ditz if she cries for help at the slightest adversity that comes her way. But then, maybe that's just me.

There was that one instance where Rebecca was able to punk-slap a Tyrant all by herself (no one can take a mutant's claw impaling them directly through the abdomen and shake it all off with a medicinal herb or two, naturally), but, maybe it isn't so unreal if you try to imagine her being driven by some sort of adrenaline rush of fear at the moment, and besides, what would an RE game be without at least one appearance from a Tyrant, right? It was sheer necessity. ^_^ Anyway, she's smart, too.
... Really smart. In chemistry.

What else could a former college student like myself wish for?
__________

Virginia Maxwell - And last but not least, the heroine of Wild Arms 3. This girl is about as realistic as they come, I would think. She definitely doesn't have the sexy face or body that gets one on the front cover of sleazy girlie magazines, but her face is still cute enough, and I do find girls with idealistic hearts and innocent natures - while still admitting honestly to having weaknesses - more than worthy of protecting as one of my (SK's) angels. ^_- I really do not need to say much more. Nothing beats a brunette-headed cowgirl always in search of justice in the lonely wasteland, nei?

I would like to quickly mention Raquel from the fourth Wild Arms, also, for pretty much the same reasons as Virginia. Raquel just has this way about her that makes you want to rush right to her side and protect her from every form of Evil she is afraid of. ... And who doesn't appreciate the voice talents that Wendy Lee lends to an RPG?
____________

.... And so that is the short list of video game heroines that just seem to escape the general notice of the media, and not for very good reasons. Now, I am a fan of a few of the typically famous girls, myself - Tifa and Kasumi, for instance - but still, nothing says "woman" to me like your true cute little girl from next door, I guess. Cuteness and femininity over sexiness, I suppose is what I am ultimately trying to say.

... Maybe this thread was a bit - ... okay, probably very much - inane and just a little foolish on many levels, ... but such are the inner thoughts in the strange heart of attempted chivalry and proverbial wisdom that lies in the one called Sarah's Knight; love me for who I am.


.... Really, it can be quite a nuisance sometimes, being a slave to the male sex drive.




So, for the sake of possibly adding a little discussion to this thread, who might your heroines be?

EVERY

FEMALE

CHARACTER

IN

SOUL

CALIBUR

Well Chun Li (from the original Street Fighter 2, Super and Turbo additions) will kick ALL their asses.

Respectfully, Rebecca Chambers is just as annoying as all the RE girls.

The true queen, goddess, and angel of survival horror is Regina from Dino Crisis (espcially 1, but also 2).

Firstly, SK... this thread is NOT inane and was very well written. So awesomeness for that.

*raises fist for pounding/props*

I think pretty much all the fighting game women mention above fall into the sexiness > cuteness area. In fact, I'm pretty sure that there will be very few that can pull off innocence within that genre.

Anyway, SK had to know this was coming, but I'd have to say a good addition would be Marle (AKA Princess Nadia) from Chrono Trigger. Never skantally clad, and very much a tom-girl, being sex driven is one of the last things she protrays. And even though the first part of the game is based on rescuing her (the princess... cliche'd, I knkow) you will fall in love with her character as the game develops. She goes from denying her throne to have fun at the fair, to upholding a very strong feel for justice and the well-being of her kindom. And that's attractive to me.

ANd we can't forget about that dumbass Colette from Tales of Symphonia. Love the game... hate her. Raine is a such a better character.

Now, wait a minute. Why do you post a rant about this and forget to mention all the male heroes who are heaps of muscles and cool hair and charming speech and generally woman magnets?

For every muscle in Ruy's body and for every woman that fell in love with Cloud, we have one gratuitously hot lady dressed in sexy clothes. Even when the game explores the psychological side of the woman, said woman is hot and attractive.

Is that really all that bad? I mean, it's videogames. We know it's not reality.
This is the realm in which you can get a woman to fall for you by picking the right choices in 3-way options in dialogs. The realm in which no scrawny or overweight guy ever saved the world.

I say, we make the most out of non-reality. If you want reality, hell, reality's just out there, around the corner.



That said, my favorite untypical female character is Rikku. I have a major liking for her.
In FFX, mind you. Never played FFX-2 and I don't like what she did to her hair there.

Rikku was so annoying I wanted to slap her.

She's the token dumbass/annoying female that ALL RPGs seem to have. Not sure what I mean? Dragoon: Meru, FF8: Selphie, Legaia: Noa, FF7: Yuffie, FF6: Relm, the list goes on. It's a stereotype that needs to go away.

And to the whole, non-reality thing... what's wrong with trying to make characters seem more real? One of the goals of graphics today is to become as real as possible... and it's to the point that the more outlandish they are, the more I want to scoff at them. I remember the first time I saw Mileena's alternate costume in the last two Mortal Kombat game.... and then DoA Beach Volleyball? Come on...

The Gnasher wrote:


... Because those are exactly the kinds of characters I hate.




@ Anonymous Bo ->

... So, what is it that you find attractive about Regina? Not to argue the point; just wondering.

Actually (and this question is directed to pretty much anybody), as a tilt toward a side discussion, what do you think are the qualities that make a true scream queen of survival horror in general? (I call them "scream queens" just like the film industry seems to refer to them as; any lead female character of the horror genre that manages to survive whatever ordeal it is that she goes through.)




@ Lantis ->

Hey, now! Selphie is not stupid. .... Just ... bouncy and cheerful to the point that you want to pull on both ends of her Patty-Duke-style hair as hard as you possibly can.

I personally liked her. She definitely isn't realistic for the most part (no sixteen-year-old girl dressed in school uniform and wielding toy nunchucks could be seen as dressed for battle), and her bounciness is rather childishly annoying, I'll admit. But what won me over ultimately was her most realistic reaction to the plight of her friends who she left behind in that other Garden - you know, when she returned to find them bereft of a home and many dead after that missile attack. Her cheerful demeanor suddenly snatched away from her like an assuming hapless child suddenly snatched away from its loving and familiar parents by a wicked stranger (*deliberate overdramatization*), I could not help but pity her at the time. The girl has a heart, you know!

... And besides, The Spoony One could not have been more right; Selphie does make a terrific role for a Mentos commercial.

I think we also deserve mention of Cornet from Rhapsody: A Musicial Adventure.




Quoted and bolded for truth.

1ce wrote:


.... Yes, I think we do.

If you were mentioning her as a heroine, anyway. So much more noble than that Prier from La Pucelle ....

Hillarious!


@Sarah's Knight
Well, you can't really be a scream queen unless you scream. The origin of the term (I would think) relates to the 50's horror films in which the starring female would scream a high pitched screech for several seconds. You don't really see that anymore.

Much of the reason that I like Regina is admittedly because of the experience playing the game, so it is both her and Dino Crisis in combination.

I thought Rebecca Chambers seemed too immature. Not really that bad, but kinda shallow (but at least she wasn't superficial).

Jill Valentine seemed OK but kinda a pretty version of a 'Plain Jane'. probably reasonably intelligent, but with no real personality distinctions. She seems like an ideal date for a stereotypical Jock or frat boy.

Although I used to like Claire Redfield, I grew to realize that she seemed so obsessed with her task of finding her brother that you knew she wasn't into you (or Leon). One wonders if she would be more into Jill.

Regina was clearly intelligent, had a beautiful face, awesome hair, an excellent figure, a beautiful voice, overall kick ass style. She was intelligent could hold her own, a frat guy could never get her with his game but she just might be into you if you let her be herself. Independent yet sociable.

Aww, she's just immature and young. ^^
Nothing a decent protagonist (read: NOT TIDUS) can't fix.

Since we're on topic, how about the girls in Persona 3? They're pretty much designed to be as realistic as possible, anime-style character design aside. The girl from the track team (I think Yuko was her name), the female lead (Yukari, was it?) and the female boss (Mizuho?) are keepers, for sure.

That still doesn't change the fact that she's annoying...

Video games probably have room for realism and its renditions; the both of them fit quite well, I'd say.

"If you want reality, hell, reality's just out there, around the corner."

The problem with that statement seems to be that a sizeable portion of gamers do not, in fact, want a dirt world reality.
There are those who do, yes, but it appears that many merely want there video games to be so realistic it perpetrates a perfection of reality in which they are a necessary component. And a hot one.

I'd stick up for Tidus any day.

(but only while cosplaying Auron)

(cosplaying is where you dress up as them right? cause the word 'play' is used to describe a variety of sex acts that I really wouldn't consign myself to without its fine print under the Hubble Telescope)

But really, I had this argument once about movies.
People will raise hell about the fact that beautiful people are coming, every week, to a theater near them, but I doubt they'd do anything short of regret were Hollywood to start packaging ugly ones.
I doubt, furthermore, a sense of beauty is all that wretched.

Generally speaking, ladies pitch fits about beautiful women no matter where they see them, men have absolutely no awareness that the man they're looking at is beautiful.
On the other hand, some men like to mentally countermand their sex-drives by decrying all the excess of gorgeous women, but in reality, it's rather pointless - directors who know how to conduct themselves and can tell a story skillfully know what's gratuitous and what isn't, what is unnecessary and what is captivating.
If they're going to make bad movies that everyone goes to see anyway, they might as well have beautiful things in them, so far as I can tell.

Same with video games; the point of being there is to be captivated. The only kind of deformations which we'll ever be allowed are scars that run the length of the face, or ugliness to the point of adorability - pleasantly plump people, for instance, or little old ladies.
They don't all have to be the most stunning thing you've ever seen, and it's the game designers who aren't aware of this or who don't need to be aware of this that abuse it: those who make bad games, or those who make games where character development is the last thing you really need so there's no real reason she shouldn't have massive tits, if there ever was one in the first place.

You want realism?
Alright, lower back tattoos, buck-teeth, zit-scarring, hairy legs, and saggy flesh it is.

Apart from that, I see nothing wrong with beautiful things used appropriately.

Women and men who don't understand at this point in their lives that a sizeable portion of the globe appears to think primarily of f*cking certainly aren't in a place to start trying to comprehend the way the world works, furthermore they probably shouldn't be allowed to tell us how it should work.
People are going to make things for these people, they are always going to be there, yes, but so will the people who are making on levels which attempt to appeal to whatever there is that is distinct from f*cking.

But I ramble. Again. I liked Rikku. Death to Aeris. Peace Out.

You make a very good point, sir. But I think at the core of what SK was trying to say is that there are beautiful women in RPGs that aren't clad in just a few lengths of yarn... that are fully dressed, and casual looking but are still admirable in their own ways.

Atractiveness outside of sexual appeal, I guess is what it comes down to.

@N.L.Y.

Many times my goal in game playing is to be captivated in the environment and the mission and not so much in the relationship with the virtual characters (i.e. most survival horror). Therefore even though I can be taken by the beauty of Regina in Dino Crisis, I can largely ignore the relationships with the other survival horror heroines.

I think this may be a big difference between survival horror and RPGS.

At any rate, if the characters that are there are not realistic enough (if every female is beautiful and is there to stroke my ego) they may as objects detract from the environments and the missions.

I'd like to point out Gnasher, that I will fight you for all of the Persona 3 girls

I was focusing more on the paragraph where he was voicing his complaint, I suppose.
I did appreciate the rundown, but it was primarily from:
"There are a number of women..." to "... But may I suggest that we men turn our sometimes horribly sex-driven attentions"
That I was addressing.
I think I was pretty much agreeing with him, overall, saying that there are other things to detail in the world of video games, and if you want them you can find them and do not have to be surrounded by bouncing titties.
I was also saying that there's no real point in decrying it, either, but I really would never of asked anything else of our friendly neighborhood perv-thwapin Knight.
There, a nice postcard shot of the Great Wall of Text.

And really, to continue its construction, the video game industry is so young, and deals so often with those who are so young, that sex and violence as a fixation is inevitable, especially for the time being.
I suspect that it is possible for the industry to age, as the movie industry did, out of its glam phase, and into making games of substance, however you define that, though I suspect it will as well be more difficult.
I mean, you deal in a mode of creativity in which gratuitous violence is pretty much 30% of the point, measured violence 40%, and thrill is 20%; this means we're dealing with an industry that runs 90% off of adrenaline, 10% off of various miscellaneous ingredients.
Adrenaline is a hard drug to quit, and I'm still not totally sure if there's any reason for it.

(*adamantly*)

... Right!

Actually, you can keep that nerdy girl with bouncing titties and a very very twisted personality (forgot her name, was it Chihiro? Chikiro?). Fuuka is yours, too. For some reason, I don't like her at all.

Oh, and you can keep Bebe.

But Yukari is mine!