http://gamepolitics.com/2007/06/19/brea ... y-by-esrb/

I'm buying this game out of principle. If I'm an adult, I want to buy whatever the hell I want.

I've read about that. I'm still gonna buy the game though, Manhunt 1 was impressive and the sequel will be no diffrent.

I beat the first one... and I've honestly got to say that the Piggsie guy at the beginning of the last level is one of the scariest things I've done in video games. Seriously... I mean, to be in a delapidated old hotel, in the dark, crouching in a corner... only to hear squealing and a chainsaw rev and not know from which hall it came from...

*shudders*

And it doesn't help playing it at 3 AM either...

In all honesty, I really haven't been really impressed with any of Rockstar's games as of late. I've recently lost faith in the GTA series, which is blaphemy to say... I know, but oh well.

"And the internet is henceforth set ablaze..."

TBH, I probably won't be getting MH2. I though that the battle system in the first was ingenuitive but I don't see any real improvements to it. That being said, all this title will be is seeing how much blood you can spray on the camera before it ends. And that's really not all that appealing to me.

I won't make any judgements until I play it, but it probably deserves the AO rating...And I think the only bad thing about it getting that rating is because so few stores caring AO games. I think the games should be put out there. I can by plenty of other things at walmart, why not a violent game?

Oh... like porn? Sure. Hate to break it to you, but alcohol is about the only other thing that may save your point.

Besides, I buy everything no a days off the internet. I'm not above waiting a week or two. Hell, it's not like it's going to affect the game any not having it the first day it's out.

Depends on the Wal-mart and depends on the rated R movie

Besides, I bet I can buy Hostel 2 at Wal-mart when it comes out. Point being it's retarded..They'll sell M rated games which you have to show an i.d. for anyways, but they won't sell AO rated games when, guess what, all you have to do to get them is show proof of age.

Oh, but AO games usually have porn in them and that's not good for a family store. Yeah, well Wal-mart didn't have much to say about being a family store when I was buying condoms at 14. Did they think that was balloon related or something? Or movies that were basically soft core porn. Don't give me that crap. If you're going to be restrictive about something do it evenly on all mediums.

And it getting completely banned in Britain is b.s. Sorry, I'll honestly probably never play the game. But if it was even close to being banned in the U.S. I'd protest my ass off. It's blatant censorship. Putting a rating on it is fine and understandable. But banning it is banning an aspect of creative medium.

The condoms can be argued. The only reason they are readily accesable is because you are going to do it reguardless. Might as well be prepared. So I really can't say you can challege the family vaule-ness based on that.

You do have a point as to proving age. But if a company wants to set a benchmark at M (or softcore porn), who are you to say they can't?

This kind of rememinds me of the debate about 300 and the nude scenes. Where I thougth the sex was over-done and unnecessary were as you thought it was "art" or "showing the passion of the Spartains". Pretty much the same thing here. You think that hacking off someone's head with a rusty hatchet is "creative medium"... me? Not so much.

That, in turn, reminds me of that thread KK started about the guy who thought drowning a kitten was poetry...

There's a distinct difference between animation and reality....actually harming anything breaks the point of creative medium. And is honestly just plain sick. If some guy wants to right about drowning a cat and thinks it's poetry. Fine with me. If another actually drowns a cat and thinks it's poetry, I think he should have his testicles crushed.

And I'm sorry, but you loved 300. Remember when they were walking around finishing off the ones that weren't dead, and actually joked about it? What's up with that? (Don't get me wrong I laughed and thought it was hilarious) It was making light of brutally killing people that were begging for mercy. But you don't have a problem with that cause it's just violence. No, you have a problem with the nudity.

Normally I would agree with you about a business being able to draw the line where it sees fit. But when businesses draw such crooked lines it pisses me off.

Oh, and about your, your gonna do it anyways, might as well be prepared. B.S. I think it's more a you're gonna do it anyways, might as well make money off you. And anyways. If I want a particularly violent game I'm gonna get it. So they might as well carry it. They not doing anything by not carrying it except for annoying me.

If I am inaccurate, please correct me:

The developer and the retailer don’t rate the game, the ESRB does.

If Walmart chooses not to sell an AO game, but does to choose to sell an R DVD, they have every right (even if the (sarcastic) detriment to society is the same).

The problem is that the ESRB and MPAA are different entites so any retailer has to make their own decision as to what they think is appropriate for their business with respect to the differences between R rated titles and AO (or Mature rated video games).

I’m not sure if legally AO games CANNOT be sold to minors (like porn) but the problem is that rather than accepting (if not celebrating) that some games ARE for adults only, Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo are the ones saying they will not support AO.

These companies are the ones who deserve to be blamed the most.

Are you mad at them?

Now as for the British banning, I’m not sure how that flew but I have a hard time believing that the game could be legally banned here.

I have a much easier time believing that Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo would refues to carry it or take out enough to give it a Mature rating rather than release it AO.

If I remember correctly it is illegal to sell a AO to a minor.

And I don't really agree with you. I don't think we should blame Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo. If a creator doesn't want to make something then that's fine. But a Retailer that wants to use double standard is annoying. Not all AO games contain porn. Some are just extreme violence. And many extremely violent games are M ratings. It annoys me when a retailer draws an x over an entire category when they sell M rated games that have extreme violence and sexual themes, and R rated movies, that have extreme violence, sexual content, and nudity, and condoms (which basically says, if you're doing it be safe so we can make money )

It annoys me, because they make that call because they view video games as a demographic filled with primarily children. And a decade ago that might have been correct. But the kids from the old nintendo and sega and snes days have grown up. I've grown up. And It annoys me to not be able to go to a store and buy a game I'd like to play when I can buy something just as violent to watch.

---------------

Oh and if I remember correctly the BBFC has banned it which means it cannot be sold in Britain. To play it you'd have to import a copy.

---------------

And Lantis, don't give me that you buy everything online now anyways crap. We both know the reason you buy most of your games online is cause El Do doesn't have a gamestop, and you don't want to drive the 40 minutes to Magnolia.

Yes, if I really wanted an AO game I could just order it online. It's not obtaining it that bothers me. It's the double standards put on games, and it's the fact that if I go to a GAME store I can't always get any game I want. Do I need to petition them to have a backroom so I can buy AO rated games? When I can buy M rated games at 17?!

--------------------

And it's just how the world's changing. Everything's getting so damn politically correct. Oh God! Don't breast feed in public! Oh god no PDA! Oh God, you can't say that word even if you're joking! When the hell did this world get so uptight? f*ck! I remember buying Fear Effect 2 when I was like 13 or something. WTH happened in just a few years?

@Kajakfaucon

Why should Wal-mart not consider gaming to be a predominently child market when Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo (THE AUTHORITIES IN CONSOLE VIDEO GAMING) won't stick up for adults' rights.

Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo not admitting that "hey look some games are ONLY for adults and that's FINE" instead are trying to distnace themselves from AO as much as Wal-mart FOR THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.

There is nothing inconsistent about Wal-mart selling R DVDs if in fact AO is relative to an X movie rating.

When they refuse to sell Mature titles, I would agree that there is something socially incosistent, but not legally inconsistent. As long as people support this they will continue to do this. It is their (Wal-mart's) right.

The only reason we are not having this conversation about movies is that everyone who is a middle-aged adult has grown up with movies. All types of movies.

It won't be until the gamer nation becomes middle-aged will we have a more level head about games.

@AB- That would be true if AO meant the equivalent of an X rated movie, but it doesn't. Just because it's rated AO doesn't mean it has any more Sex in it than an R rated movie. And if I remember the articles correctly MH2 got the rating from the extreme violence. Since when is Extreme Violence XXX? (not that I disagree with the rating, I think it's perfectly appropriate.)

And why do you keep going after Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo? They just don't make Games that are hard enough to be AO. It's not like they go around campaigning against them. Different companies target different areas. That's understandable.

----

And as an edit to my previous post I realized Fear Effect 2 was not an AO game. It was rated mature. But damn if anything it was freaky as hell

----

I just don't like that the line is so skewed.

My point is that since the ESRB and the MPAA are different entities, one could decide to ban all pizza related content (it doesn't matter if it is sex, violence, or pizza) because the way in which AO IS like X (as far as my example was concerned) is because minors are prohibited from accessing them.

It seems more that you don't like that the RATING system for video games is different than for movies as opposed to whether or not a company complies with the rating system.

In other words if AO is such that you cannot sell to minors then Wal-mart is consistent by not selling AO games as it also does not sell movies to minors that the movie ratings (X) prohibits. Yes the content might not be equivalent but that is because there are differnent governing bodies for ratings instead of a single system for movie/games/books, etc.

There is a difference that gamers usually don't bring up. Whereas all fictional media are a type of virtual reality, there IS more interactivity in games. Whether or not this crosses a threshold of unacceptable is up for debate but whereas watching a movie in clear video detail can provide even more of a graphical experience of violence than a pixelated rendered game, the game can provide more of the experience of violence by providing a user to simulate the activity. Again, all up for debate but clearly distinctions.

We all know Nintendo is the most child or family oriented of the three systems even if they also cater to adults, but I have read articles that Microsoft and Sony both have admitted that they will not release any game on their systems (like one by Rockstar for example) if they recieve an AO rating. That is an admission that they refuse to support Adults Only rated games.

Why would they state that to us adult gamers?

It is because they know we will still be buying our 360s and PS3s, and yet not lose the parents either. It is political and it is business.

As far as I know, the only AO game released was the GTA with the Hot Chocolate Mod that snuck in as a Mature title AND they refused to release more under an AO title but rather took out the content and made in a Mature game instead.

That's the nail on the head right there. That is clearly the situation at this point.

However, as I mentioned, once our generation are the new parents, we will all know that no matter the game, we are all healthy and reasonable to distinguish fantasy from reality. It is our duty as parents to teach our children right from wrong. Censorship is not the way, though.

The way I see it, the movie equivelant of AO games is the NC-17 rating. R-rated movies are more an equivalent to M-rated games.

Just curious. Wasn't the GameCube version of the porn game BMX XXX was the only verison of the multi-platform games to be uncensored? (Unless this was just a rumor.)

Actually, I could be wrong about the NC-17 rating, too. Is that a movie rating or a TV rating?

BMX XXX wasn't even near x rated let alone softcore porn. More like Rated R movies, they have a game with innuendos, sex jokes and no showing of the girls tits.