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PostPosted: August 13th, 2009, 3:23 pm 
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http://kotaku.com/5336675/

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Sega: Impossible To Please All Sonic Fans With One Sonic Game
By Stephen Totilo, 11:40 AM on Thu Aug 13 2009

As Sega targets 12-and-under gamers as its core Sonic market, company leaders told Kotaku that it has re-thought how to please all Sonic fans.

To understand how Sega thinks about its most famous mascot, one must appreciate how differently people responded to 2008's werewolf version of Sonic, the Werehog.

That creature, who was playable in the combat sections of last year's Sonic Unleashed, "came in for so much criticism," Sega of America's vice president of market, Sean Ratcliffe recalled for Kotaku during an interview with Sega execs in New York earlier this week. "If you read all those things, and we do — maybe not quite every single one, but the vast majority of them — and it's amazing the sort of diatribes you get. But if you sit down with a group of 8, 9, 10 year-old boys, completely different story."

You can't please them all, Sega has learned.

"If you read everything, we need to be all things to all gamers with Sonic, and that's a difficult thing to do," said Mike Hayes, the head of Sega Europe and, as of last month, the head of Sega of America as well. "Trying to put everything into one game and making everybody happy is impossible. And I think that's something clear going forward."

So as Sega proceeds to, in Hayes' words, "review our Sonic road map," fans young and old should prepare for an approach that will produce Sonic games that won't satisfy everyone at once.

Sega's core Sonic target, in fact, isn't those who grew up with Sonic. It's those who are growing up now. "It very much is in that under 12 group," Hayes said. "And what we have to do is make a Sonic that is of a quality that delights that audience, first and foremost. I'd argue that we very much achieved that with products like Sonic Heroes on PS2, and I think we did that with Mario and Sonic 1 on Wii and DS. I think we did it some ways with Sonic and the Secret Rings on Wii. I think [the Wii's Sonic and the] Black Knight was a good game."

Hayes is less satisfied with Sega's execution of those Sonic games that have been on the more powerful Xbox 360 and PS3 platforms. "I think we've had challenges with [the 2006] Sonic the Hedgehog and Unleashed," he said. "[The 2006 game] Sonic the Hedgehog sells extremely well at a budget price. So clearly it's very popular with a young audience. But first and foremost is: We've got to make a quality game for that audience. Does quality mean it's got to be a Metacritic 90 percent? Well not necessarily. It's just got to be quality that's appropriate for them. Then we've got our core fans, and what we need to do is now and then produce a Sonic that will appeal to those fans specifically. "

It's that last group — those core Sonic fans — who seem to be the ones grumbling most on sites like this one about the fate of the franchise. Hayes suggested some ways Sega might produce a Sonic for that community: "Often it can be looking at another take on the nostalgic take on Sonic. Or re-issues. They're very popular. Fans do like that."

One suggestion I'd seen from readers was for Sega to take a page from Nintendo's return-to-the-roots release of New Super Mario Bros. a few years ago and create a new Sonic game that played in a side-scrolling format similar to the original games. While not committing to whether Sega would or already is planning anything like that, Hayes used the question as a way to discuss the differences between continuing the Mario and Sonic lines and to discuss a third brand few gamers have likely ever thought of in the same sentence as Sega's Hedgehog.

"But in its day, Sonic was the Modern Warfare," Hayes said. It was, in other words, the edgier thing, the game series that was cooler, more grown up, than Mario." Hayes admired that, even when he worked for five years at Nintendo. "Mario was very much the toy brand," he recalled. "Although it was hugely successful, sometimes we looked enviously at Sega with this cutting edge. Now the world has moved on since Sonic achieved that. Sonic can't compete with Modern Warfare 2. It can't. Whereas, Mario I don't think has ever been anything other than appealing to that demographic."

The difference, Hayes, explained, is that even as Sonic could no longer be the edgiest thing in console video games, Mario could always target his same cheerful crowd. A New Super Mario Bros. wasn't, in Hayes' mind, as much a return to the series' roots as a continuation of a franchise style that was always relevant to Mario's original kind of audience. "They've had a consistent strategy," he said. "Whereas, with Sonic, I think you have to take it … to a different target audience. Sonic has to go through a metamorphosis as to the type of game you would design."

Hayes and the rest of Sega want to make the old-time Sonic fans happy. They just need those fans to not expect their Sonic in every Sonic game. So… the plan? Most of it is not being revealed, yet, of course, but the general strategy is to make core Sonic games pretty much every other year, "character derivative" games between those and, on occasion, off-shoots that involve Sonic doing new physical activities such as playing tennis, skateboarding (as in Sonic Riders), or racing cars, as in the upcoming Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing.

The Sega brass hopes their plan will generate something Sonic for everyone. "Trying to appease all those audiences is really hard," Ratcliffe said. "But we are flattered, because we've taken nostalgic fans with us on a journey for almost 20 years and they're still passionate about Sonic."


Alright, I've officially let go.

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PostPosted: August 13th, 2009, 3:58 pm 
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Ixzion wrote:
Alright, I've officially let go.


Took you that long?

I personally never understood the appeal of mascots. Alright, I understand that the old Sonic games were good, but that doesn't give any credibility to the character as a character. The whole fanbase grew out of terrible marketing ideas, like Sonic-based cartoons and other weird crap.


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PostPosted: August 13th, 2009, 4:07 pm 
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I've been telling Ix for a long time now that Sonic is dead. It was in a special Game Overthinker video that I had come to terms that Sonic shouldn't even be brought back. He should be laid to rest and remembererd for the awesomeness of his exsistance in the 90's.

Now you see... you see what I was talking about.

Goodbye, Sonic. We will always remember you as you were when you rocked our faces off...

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PostPosted: August 13th, 2009, 5:28 pm 
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Not saying I'm going to get another Sonic game in the future, but they do have some valid points about changing facets of the game. How long can you stick to one formula before people get tired of that? I remember how Mario Sunshine got some backlash for the water gun thing you had strapped to your back and how it didn't play like past Mario games. You take chances on creating something different. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. However, old-time fans have issues with their favorite series' getting a makeover or new features or something that wasn't like the "better" originals. Times change, the gamers change, everything changes. Just stating the facts of that. You can continue to play the old games, just like old people listen to older music.

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PostPosted: August 13th, 2009, 5:33 pm 
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Well, in all fairness, Mario Sunshine was the only one of the Mario series to really get bad flac. Nintnedo fixed it and is keeping Mario on the straight and narrow. Sega, on the other hand, just can't seem to get it right... period... at all.


Also, Mario Sunshine was still pretty decent. I might not have collected ALL the shine sprites, but I did enjoy playing through the game.

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PostPosted: August 13th, 2009, 5:34 pm 
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Here's the thing, Sunshine got a little backlash for the water pack (but I actually liked it), but the entire package was actually a GOOD GAME. Nintendo and Mario continue to keep new and old gamers interested in new games featuring the plumber.

Mario Galaxy is already one of the best games this gen. Galaxy 2 will likely join that. But Sega does what Nintendon't, and that is continuing to anally rape it's most beloved character over and over again.

This is not a case of hating new features. It's that the new features SUCK. If they were new features that were actually good, who would care?

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PostPosted: August 14th, 2009, 12:41 pm 
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Why do you want new features and new games at all? Let the poor blue thing rest already.

It's like in comics, where they can't seem to get rid of the characters they started using 40 years ago, so the characters and stories look stale and terrible.


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PostPosted: August 14th, 2009, 3:27 pm 
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Game overthinker's two part Sonic rant, posted for great justice...

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PostPosted: August 17th, 2009, 7:12 pm 
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My problem with Sunshine wasn't the water pump. I actually liked the feature. My problem was that it felt too much like Super Mario 64 1/2. I had already played Mario 64 to death, and by this point the "going into the same level over and over again just to collect a different start/shine" thing was getting tiresome. Even worse that each level had more shines than Mario 64 did with stars, so the repetitiveness was even more extreme. It's why my favorite part of the game was the little classic "get from point A to point B" bonus rooms. And I'm glad that they focused on that idea with Mario Galaxy. The "go into the stage multiple times" thing was still there, but in most cases only a small portion of the level was repeated before you went on exploring a new path. Helped make the game seem much larger in scope, too, and in a good way.

Oh, and placing a Mario game on a tropical island doesn't allow for much variety of stages.

But back to Sonic, the two newest games I played were Sonic Adventure 2 Battle and Sonic Advance, and both were somewhat decent, so I can only go by what I hear with the newer games. And what I hear is horrible camera, and horrible controls. Actually, both were issues present in SA2B, but I think they were tolerable. My biggest issue was how Sonic tended to home in on enemies, when I wanted to just skip them. Watching that LP of Sonic 360, looks like they're even worse, now. I also hear a lot of flack about all the secondary characters, and while I agree that Shadow was rather overplayed as the new anti-hero (apparently Knuckles didn't really cut it, anymore), I don't really mind them being there, so long as you play as Sonic for 90% of the game. Tails, too, but only if he plays like he did in the 2D games.

Oh, and as far as the Sonic cartoons go, the others I don't care so much about, but SatAM was great. But then, I also like the Mario Super Show (with the live acted intro/outro). :P

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